If you're familiar with Pat Posse, the former guitarist of Thrash or Die from 2011 to 2013, and also the frontman, vocalist and guitarist of the Argentinian death metal band Excelsis Tenebrae, the chances are you are probably actively following him on social media and that you're even subscribed to his YouTube channel, where he covers everything "from Death Metal to Queen and everything in between", as his famous catchphrase suggests. I've been following his YouTube channel since 2020, and I've been frequently watching his videos regarding music and studio equipment rundown, guitar pedal reviews, album rankings and such, but I also got to check out his band Excelsis Tenebrae, which released a three-track EP Eternity Denied back in 2017, and I highly recommend that you check it out if you want to hear a hybrid mixture of Nile, Morbid Angel, Vital Remains, Suffocation, Death, Deicide and Spawn of Possession. There hasn't been any news out there regarding the current status of Excelsis Tenebrae, but on the other hand, Pat is frequently posting new content on his YouTube channel, so I think you should also take your time and check it out for yourselves if you're interested. I've been wanting to interview Pat for a longtime now, so I finally got around to chat with him around the end of November, and we discussed a lot of things such as his experience with Thrash or Die, his YouTube channel, the experience of working as a producer, his life back in Miami, Florida, and we even talked about the current situation regarding his band Excelsis Tenebrae. I hope you will enjoy our lengthy conversation and in case you wish to know more about Pat after this interview, make sure to subscribe to his YouTube channel like a man if you haven't yet, a little goes a long way and he'll surely do appreciate it.

Vladimir

How's it going?

Hey. I'm doing great. Thank you. How are you? I'm doing fine.

Likewise. Nice to finally meet you. Been a long-time fan and follower of your YouTube channel, man, it's been over 4 years now since I subscribed to you. And, I really gotta say that, it's a very big honour to have you here, dude.

Not a problem. My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

No worries, man. So far, how is the new studio coming along? I know you had a lot of work around that during this year and last year as well.

Oh, it's actually been great, but as a matter of fact, I'm actually working on moving it again.

Wow.

Right? It's not even done yet, and I'm moving away.

How come you're moving away so frequently?

Long story short, I moved down to Argentina about a few years back, and then we had the whole pandemic and COVID and all that crap. So, I moved from an apartment I had with a different studio. I lived in an apartment, but I had a different studio that I rented out, so I ended up moving away from the city and I bought a house. And I built a studio inside of the house, but now because it's actually before COVID, I was doing a lot of guitar lessons and I was recording a lot of bands. I was actually producing at home, but then after COVID, a lot of people started not doing lessons and a lot of people started recording at their own place. So, work kind of died down. So, what I did is that, I started the YouTube channel, which I didn't have before, and it's starting to pick up. And because of the fact that we're so far away here in Argentina, a lot of the brands don't send me stuff down here, so I have to go and pick it up at my mother's house in the US and then I have to bring it back down, and it's a whole ordeal. So, I'm thinking about just moving back to the US and just being there for the time being.

Where were you in the US? I remember that you mentioned that you were in Florida. Right?

Yes. I've been a Miami kid, like, pretty much my whole life.

Oh, really? What was it like growing up in Miami?

It was tough as a metal dude. It was actually kinda tough because it's very influential. So, a lot of the Latin people are not really into metal unless they're Argentinian or Brazilian. For some reason, real South Americans are really like from the South of America. They're more into metal than people in the Caribbean, people in Central America, and that's the people that go to Miami because they're used to the weather and stuff like that, like Cuban people, Colombians. So, they're not really into metal. They're more into salsa and hip hop and reggaeton and all of that stuff. So, growing up there was actually really tough. It was really hard to find people that were into metal like I was.

Were you at least in any way familiar with anyone who's from the Tampa scene?

I do know a couple of guys from there. Like, I know I know the guys from Malevolent Creation. I know some of the guys from Paths of Possession, George Fisher's 2nd band at that point. I knew the people that were in the Tampa scene, but the Tampa scene is gone now. I've played with them. I opened up for ones like that, that would come down to Miami and play because they were so close. You know, Fort Lauderdale, Miami, Tampa. They were big places at one point. Not anymore though, not for metal.

Are you familiar with the band Nasty Savage?

I am not.

Oh, Nasty Savage is like one of those very influential Florida bands that kickstarted the whole extreme metal movement there and then inspired the death metal bands of Florida because Nasty Ronnie who is the vocalist knew the guys from Obituary when they were still kids. They were still teenagers and they started Executioner, which would later become Obituary. He knew all these guys. And he even spoke to me about that and even mentioned what Florida now is in comparison to then and how it drastically changed. Like back then, people wanted metal. Nowadays, it's like "we have enough of it". And then it almost feels like it's oversaturated at best, like you said, it's starting to die out. It's quite sad.

Yeah. It's a shame. I am actually very good friends with the drummer from another death metal band that's been around forever, which you might have heard of, Hibernus Mortis and they've been around since the 90's and still are as well.

Oh, that's awesome. I'm familiar with the band, but I never listened to them. I might have listened to it on some compilations, but you know when you stroll to at least 20 bands, you forget the first five that you've discovered. If they're not like the ones that you heard later.

That's true. That's one of the problems about metal. It gets to the point that everybody tends to sound the same, so they blend in. And then you just forget about them.

I completely get it because that's, that's the reason why you have Norwegian black metal in the first place.

And then they started sounding the same hahah.

Yes. It's like one saturation leads to another people just trying to completely reinvent themselves. So now they want to get out of the box and do different type of music or just incorporate a different style. I mean, it's good that people at least know what bands to affiliate with Florida. Unlike, for example, myself, I was completely oblivious to the fact that Possessed is from California and not from Florida because I got used to the fact that Death metal is a very Florida thing, and then you kinda forget "Oh yeah. That's actually from California. What's wrong with me".

Oh, yeah. I mean that. So much so that Cannibal Corpse actually moved down to Florida because they wanted to be part of that scene.

Did you at least get the chance to see some of these bands perform live when you were living there?

Which ones are you referring to? I've seen a lot of bands play, and I've actually got the chance to play with them, like, to open up for them. Bands like Obituary, Nile, Cannibal Corpse, Deicide, Atheist, and then many more actually. DRI. That's not death metal, but it's still metal, Death Angel.

So you were actually quite active, you weren't just even seeing these bands, you were actually sharing the stage with them.

Yeah. Matter of fact, we played so much at places like the Culture Room and Revolution Live, which are in Fort Lauderdale. Those are big venues. And I used to get in for free because I played there all the time. So, I got to see a lot of bands for free like Suffocation. We actually opened up for Dying Fetus as well, which is really cool. And I even saw Slayer for free once, and Sodom. You know, it was really cool because they knew me already from playing there all the time.

You could actually write a book about it. Have you ever considered that?

Actually, yes. But not much because of death metal and stuff like that, just because of random stuff that happened by working at Sam Ash, which was my actual job back then. Just, you know, meeting random people, like running into Yngwie Malmsteen all the time, and I have stories about him that people would just go crazy about. But, you know, it's just things that happen, basically.

Do you miss working at Sam Ash? Because I know that they closed their stores like this year, if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah. It was actually one of the things I was planning of maybe doing if I moved up to Florida again, I would probably go there and just knock on the door and say "Hey! Give me a part time job so that I can have some income". But I've always said this, if I could have moved here and brought my job with me, I would've, because I had a lot of fun there. I actually met a lot of great people.

I actually don't suspect that you had great memories. I know you even spoke about some of your experiences on your YouTube channel, and of course I will recommend to anyone following this interview that they should go to your YouTube channel and look at the videos regarding your Guitar Centre experiences, like the ones when you had very bad customers. You know, it's like good customer service, but you get bad customer feedback.

Yeah hahah. Definitely.

I just remembered, I did not know about it until recently, but you were also the guitarist of Thrash or Die, and I saw the band in 2016, I think. But back then, you were already out of the band. I know that you were there from 2011 to 2013. So, what can you tell me about, joining the band and being a part of that band?

Oh, it was a lot of fun. Here's the thing, I was actually, again, back at Sam Ash, I was the guitar manager back then, the guitar department manager, and one of the guys that worked for me in the guitar department was Bill Barter who was actually or was the one of the guitar players for Thrash or Die, and the drum department manager was Cesar Placeres, who was the drummer for Hibernus Mortis as well, but he was also the drummer back then for Thrash or Die. So, they kept asking me because they see me play all the time at work. They kept asking me, I wasn't doing anything then. They wanted to include a second guitar player to the band and they were actually doing the CD release party in 2 weeks. And they said "come on, bro. Please hook us up. Hook us up. You gotta come play. You know, the songs are easy. You have fun." So, I was like "Nah". I don't wanna do it because I didn't wanna play, honestly. I was like done with the whole scene. I didn't wanna get on stage. I didn't wanna stay up late. I was more into just working, saving money because I was already planning on moving to Argentina. So, on a different mindset. So, they kept harping me and they said "Hey,we'll pay you". And I was like "Well, you know, easy money". So, I said "Yeah. Fine. Whatever". So, I joined just to play that one show and after the show, Ralph, the singer came up to me and he said "Bro, you're the new guitar player for this band". I was like "No. I don't wanna do that". He's like "Come on, man. We gotta kick this guy out", because for some reason, they were in a feud with Bill, who was the other guitar player. So, after that show, I became the only guitar player in Thrash or Die. So that was hilarious. So, we played Puerto Rico. We played a couple of festivals. We opened up for DRI, we opened up for Obituary. They had a lot of really cool shows lined up. So, it was really tough for me to just leave. I wanted to keep playing because it was cool. They had a following and they were recording the videos like "Wake Up and Smell the Thrash". I wasn't even on that, but I'm on the video and they actually made the puppet for me. And I was like "Dude…". I mean, these guys are cool. I'm gonna stick around. So, I did. I'd probably play about 20 shows, I didn't play a lot, but I'm still really good friends with pretty much all of them.

I'm actually kind of sad that they never got the chance to meet the rest of the band because I saw Thrash or Die back in 2016, and it wasn't actually a Thrash or Die gig. I remember that the headlining band was Solstice, and the members of Solstice were also members of Thrash or Die, at least from what I recall. Ryan Taylor was in both bands. I think he joined Solstice recently back then and the lineup consisted of two former members of Demolition Hammer. And it was a weird gig. I think the bass player's name is Gibbs or something.

Yeah, Josh.

Yeah, exactly. Josh Gibbs. He was the bass player. I remember they were playing Thrash or Die songs, and for some reason, they stopped playing after a couple of songs, at least for a half an hour or almost half an hour or something. They were on the stage, but nothing was happening. I think Alex, the drummer, flipped off because they had a very bad drum sound and it was here in my hometown, and I don't blame them because it was very band PA and they couldn't really hear the drums. They couldn't really hear each other well. Generally, that's what happens when you have these big clubs with bad sound. And Alex, I remember, was so pissed off. They were calming him down. And then they started playing, but I had the last bus at midnight so I had to leave because I was still an underage kid in high school, and it was in the middle of the week.

Oh. That sucks.

I didn't even I didn't even stay around to hear the Solstice set. I remember it was so awkward. I mean, it would have been a fun year if you were their guitar player back then and then discovered your channel like 4 years afterwards.

That would have been awesome. I mean, that's why we do this.

Yeah. I really gotta ask this, because you already mentioned guitar lessons and doing stuff like explaining guitar pedals and doing reviews and stuff like that. Just like you say "From death metal to Queen and everything in between". What truly inspired you to start a YouTube channel? Was there anything else besides discussing these guitar related subjects?

Good question. I could probably just boil it down to about 3 things, really. I mean, it's something I've always wanted to do, I just never got the chance all the time or the real actual fire and desire to actually pursue it. But it's always been on the back burner. It was something that I wanted to do because I thought from being at Sam Ash, I had a lot of experience to share, and I knew a lot of gear. Like being a department manager and stuff, I would test out every pedal, every guitar, and we would get a lot of used stuff as well. So, there would be a lot of gear, not only from the big brands like BOSS and MXR and Dunlop and TC Electronics, whatever, but also a lot of very tiny boutique pedals that you've never heard of, that would come into the store because people would trade it in or they would just bring it in because they knew you from the store and they wanted me to check it out because I was kinda cool with the guys. I was a musician, they were musicians. And if you were into metal, I was your guy. So, they would bring in distortion pedals and stuff like that. So that was cool. So, I knew that every time I would talk to random people outside of Sam Ash, like in regular life per se, people would say "Dude, you know a lot of stuff", and I would understand that I had a lot of experience, and it was something I wanted to share with everybody, because I know a lot of people in different towns and cities and countries that don't really have the chance to try out all the stuff. And when I moved to Argentina, I noticed that here, it's not like in the US where you could just try out like a hundred pedals and buy one, or you could just buy it and return it. You don't really have the chance to do that. You buy it, and then if you don't like it, you know, tough shit. You gotta sell it on your own. So, I was thinking, maybe I can save the hassle of doing that to people here and anywhere just by showing you the pedal and what it does and mostly manage your expectations. For instance, my most popular video is a video I made on the DS 1 Boss Pedal, which is like a $40 pedal. It's a cheap pedal that says distortion on it, so a lot of people think it's a Boss pedal. It says distortion on it, it's $40, it's going to sound awesome and chances are it's not because it's designed to push a tube amp, which as you know, it's been designed in the 70's, and you would just have to have a tube amp and blast it and then add the pedal to it. And now people think with a tiny amplifier add this pedal and it's gonna sound great, and it doesn't sound great. So, you know, things like that, I wanted to maybe share my experience and help people manage their expectations. So that was one thing. Then secondly, I've seen a lot of people on YouTube that say a lot of crap. Like, we have the knowledge and then they say "this pedal is good for this or this pedal is good for that", and it's really not. Or, you know, a lot of people are actually getting paid to say thanks.  And I thought maybe I'll chip in my 2¢ and say "Hey. Don't listen to these guys". I'm not gonna name names, but here's another opinion of the same pedal or here's another opinion of the same amplifier. And I'm not biased because nobody's paying me to say anything. So, I can say this thing sucks. Usually, I try to focus on things I actually do like because I actually wanna enjoy making the video. But if I have to say "This pedal sucks!", I have no problem saying it. And then thirdly, like I said before, because of the fact that we were locked up during COVID and stuff like that, I had a lot of free time and I wanted an outlet. I wanted to do something. I wanted to feel useful, so I started a YouTube channel. And then when I started quote-unquote "making money", because it makes cents a day. I felt like now I have to pursue this. I have to give back to the people that are actually supporting the channel.

When I discovered your channel, I think it was around the end of 2020, and I came by chance at the video which had a most eye-catching title and something that I could instantly agree on even though I didn't even watch the video, and it is "The Rise and Fall of Dimmu Borgir". It was the first video of you I've ever seen. I entered and I listened to it, and I thoroughly listened to it and I agreed completely with everything because even I love everything up until Death Cult Armageddon, but everything from In Sorte Diaboli and onwards is like nothing interesting for me. So, finally, I found somebody on YouTube who shares the same view as I for the same logical reasons that this band is too great to be so lacklustre. So, I had to even look up your channel and see what other content you do and I like the ranking videos that you do a lot, even the riff videos. I've seen you actually do these Queen related videos. I'm surprised that your YouTube channel isn't a strictly Queen related channel.

Well, that's the whole idea of the channel itself. Like, a lot of people say you gotta niche down. I understand, and to some extent, I agree. Like, if I just made a Queen channel and all I talked about was Queen, it would be awesome because I love Queen, but I also know that it would grow a lot faster than my actual channel, because if you're into Queen, you're gonna watch probably all of the videos if you find me interesting, that is. But, you know, the channel is not one thing. It's a little bit lacklustre as well because of the fact that it's a little bit of everything. It's all over the place, but that's why the channel's name is my name. That's me. People think that's Pat Posse. So, it's just me just doing random stuff I enjoy, talking about Queen, playing guitar, talking about gear, talking about life experiences, talking about YouTube sometimes and how it sucks sometimes and how it's awesome at different times. At one point, I was doing some live, when I had the radio show. I would play that live as well and play music and talk off camera. And it's just what I do and who I am. So, I didn't really want to just limit myself to one thing, to just metal or just Excelsis Tenebrae or just Queen. I wanted it to be pretty much golf and golfing.

I completely understand, and you actually have content that I would consider quite brave, because you were actually the first YouTuber and musician I came across, who spoke openly against Spotify, at least how Spotify doesn't pay their artists properly. There isn't any income from streaming services. And as somebody who has their music on Spotify, I can definitely tell you that it's not a rewarding feeling at all. You can have at least 3000 streams, but it doesn't really increase your popularity. It doesn't really make you relevant, and you made maybe two or three more videos about it. I didn't even see that when it comes to Rob Scallon or Jared Dines or even Glenn Fricker. I don't even know if those guys ever made videos related to Spotify, and I think I should give you credit for having your music strictly on CD and on Bandcamp.

Thank you. You've been watching my videos. That's awesome. You go way back. I mean, that video is probably about 4 or 5 years old at this point, I think. It might be less, but that's crazy. I mean, it is something that should be addressed, and I know my video is not gonna make a huge change, but if it reaches somebody like you and then you tell somebody else, I mean, you're living it, so you know what it's what it's like. But if somebody who's not necessarily a musician watches that video and says "You know what? I am going to support my favourite band or my friend or whomever just by buying the one CD". I think that's all that matters, and I've made my point, I suppose.

The worst part is, I even suffer when it comes to my band where I play bass. The worst part is we don't even have people buying our merch anymore because it somehow died out. I don't know if it's because people have too many band shirts or if nobody is really interested in buying CDs anymore, but somehow that culture died out. I don't know if it's just the new generations, or is it people in general because you have mixed generations at gigs and somehow it still doesn't feel right. But like you said, there's nothing more sincere than buying a CD or buying any physical media, any merch that the band sells. That's what matters the most. Like, that's the best way you can bro fist the band and say "You're cool, bro. I'm gonna give you my support". Have you, by any chance, seen this Netflix documentary where there was like, this Congress hearing for this guy from Spotify, who I think is their co-founder and they were talking about how they don't pay royalties to their artists, properly?

I did not. I have not watched that. I should probably look for that video.

It's very interesting. There's a video about that guy who's the cofounder, and they asked about the income of Spotify artists who are not in the top five. He said he didn't know the exact amount, and as the judge flipped through the pages said "According to what we got from your data, it says $12 a month. Could you live off that?" He said "Well, that's not clearly clarified", and the judge says "But it's taken from your own results".

That's crazy.

I could say it's a crystal-clear example of why the music industry sucks today, at least when it comes to the popularity of streaming services.

Well, I mean, it's a long subject to talk about, but, I mean, here's what I think. I'm actually thinking about making a video on this, so it would be cool to bounce some ideas off of you. So, here's the deal. What I think is that it's kind of like a circle. It's artists that don't make any money, so they don't put in a lot of time because they can't afford to put in a lot of time into their work. So, the less money the artist makes, the worse the product is going to be. The worse the product is going to be, the less people are going to be interested in buying that product. If people are not interested in buying the product, the artist is going to make even less money and so on and so forth. So, I don't think about recording another "Dark Side of The Moon", because it would take way too long, and it would cost way too much money for something to be made, you know, something of such quality to be recorded and produced and distributed and whatever. Even if they do make it, they're not gonna make that money back, unless they're already Pink Floyd. You know what I mean? So, it's like you put in a lot of work and a lot of effort and a lot of money, and then you don't get any back. So even the industry is seeing that. So, recording companies and labels and stuff like that are just going to be like "let's put in little money on a band, preferably a solo artist so we'd only have to pay the one person, and let's invest a little money so we can get that money back quickly. And if it dies off in like 2 or 3 weeks, so be it. We already made our money back". And that's why they're pumping out the singles, just like music in general. They put out these lame ass singles, just one song that's very simple, maybe catchy, but just stupid, repetitive, just very easy to produce, very easy to record, and they just put it out. You know, it gets a million views, a million hits on Spotify, a 1000000 hits on YouTube, and they move on from it. In 2 weeks, you won't remember the song, but they already cashed in because they invested $1000 on it, and they made $5000. So that's already a win for them, but it's not gonna last, and it's not gonna make any impact on anybody, musically speaking. So that's why I think music is dying down, and people don't care about music anymore as a whole. Of course, people like you and I and a lot of people reading this, of course they care about music, but I mean, as a whole, as a generation maybe even, music is not as important as it was 20/30 years ago.

Yeah. And the funny thing is there isn't really much of hard work and effort being put into music, not just into creating it but also pushing it out there. And a lot of these top trending bands on Spotify or should I say artists, whether it's in rock, metal, hip hop, a lot of them are just YouTubers who happen to be musicians and making music and maybe some song themed about broccoli gets like fifteen million hits, like you said. Somehow that's more important than a single by a band which is just teasing a full-length album, and it's crazy. And the worst part is they get more money than the label would pay an artist for their royalties. If there is one thing, I would suggest to anybody who wants to start a band, who wants to start doing music, I would just say "Get a real job. It's easier for you. It's much better for you".

Totally. Sadly, it's true.

Yeah. I mean, we all have our day jobs, but I would preferably work my ass off and get proper money, then count on somebody who will probably never give me a single dime. Living off of music is great if you're a popular artist, but even if you're a popular artist, at some point, you won't be relevant anymore because times change. If somebody was as great as Dio in the 80's, making great music and being a very top-heavy metal artist, playing in smaller venues and doing smaller shows in the 90's, what does that tell you? Times change. Everything changes and that's why I would always say "Don't live off music as a profession", unless you're a road crew and working with bands directly and stuff like that, but as a musician, not something I would suggest.

Mhmm.

Since you mentioned having your studio and working with bands, you renovated your studio and since you upgraded it multiple times in a row, I've actually wanted to ask you, did you frequently have bands coming up to you wanting to do their album, like record, produce, mix, and master?

Yes, I have.

So how were the overall experiences working with these bands? Like, do you frequently have bands coming up to you or is it something like that happens from time to time?

I actually used to have a lot of bands coming in before the pandemic. That's why I basically started out and that's why I moved here because it was gonna be a bigger space and stuff like that, but since I am farther away from the city, a lot of people just didn't wanna come. It's like an hour drive and people are lazy. They'd rather just stay within a 15-minute radius. So that's why I started to not work as much, but I actually had a lot of bands come in because of my gear, because of my knowledge, because they knew me from some of the bands and from YouTube. And I used to probably record and produce a band every 2 months, at least. Sometimes together, sometimes I wouldn't record anybody for like 3 months, but I did a lot of singles. I did a lot of albums and it really depends. I mean, it's like everything. It's like dealing with customers at Sam Ash. You know, everybody's different. So sometimes it's really cool, sometimes you've got some really good musicians and it's a really fun environment, and you actually get to bond with the guys. I actually recorded parts for them too as well and they were awesome. And some people just suck. Some people, a work that should have taken 3 hours takes like 4 days, and they're just not prepared. They don't care. They don't put in the work. They complained a lot. Then once you get to mixing, they don't like anything. They want the bass to be up, then they want the bass to be down. Now they want the guitar to be up, wow they want the focus to come up. Now they want this. Now they didn't like that solo. Now you have to rerecord something that's been already recorded. And some people are just a pain. They say they're perfectionists, but they're not. They're just busting a ball sometimes. So, I mean, it's like everything. Sadly, most people are really annoying to work with, but every now and then, you get that one band that makes it all worthwhile.

Yeah. It's a big responsibility putting on that producer hat. Sometimes you get "hearing AIDS" and you just become completely tone deaf after a while, and then you don't know whether their music is even good or not or whether their album sounds good or not after constantly going back and forth. I mean, what kind of bands did you usually work with? Were they heavy metal bands, hard rock bands, or did you have various bands coming in?

When I first started, I would do anything. Like, I did. I even did a rap dude once he brought in a beat and he's like, I'm gonna rap over it. I was like, whatever. Easy money. I just gotta set up a microphone and then just record. So, I did that, but, you know, at the end, I started just working with rock and metal bands. Nothing outside of the rock spectrum. I would do blues out of mind. I would do some jazz. You know, as long as the music is good, I don't care, but preferably in the rock and metal genres because I would call that my expertise. That's what I know, and that's what I listen to mostly. So, I know when something sounds good or not, or at least I know when somebody else is going to like the tone I'm getting out of a mix. Whereas something that's blue or jazz, I'm not. I would have to sit there and really compare and go back and forth with other albums so that I could try to capture their essence and then try to replicate it. Whereas with rock, you know what sounds good, or at least I think I do.

Plus, you have a good trained ear for both genres of music. So, of course, you're gonna be well familiar with how the guitar should sound, how the bass should sound, how the drums should sound and how forward do the vocals need to be in the music.

Exactly.

I also have friends who work as producers, they usually say the same things when it comes to producing bands, but the worst problem is when you have vocalists who wants to be more on the spotlight, the guy who wants to be the focal point of the song rather than everybody to be the focal point of the song. That's not why you start a band. That's the reason why you start your solo project. If you want to be the centre of the music, you do your solo project.

Yeah. That is usually the case.

How do you deal with that without experiencing a complete burnout? Have you even experienced burnout working with these guys as a producer?

Oh, yeah. A lot of times. A hundred times. More times than I can count. But, well, first of all, not in the beginning obviously, but after I started having more experience. I guess I should say that before I started my own studio, I actually worked at a different studio with my friend Paolo, who works for Universal Audio now and we also met at Sam Ash, and he had his own studio. So, I had a lot of experience when I first started my own studio. And when I started my own studio, I would take anybody because I needed the money and because I wanted to get my name out there, but once I started getting constant work per se, I started to actually choose the bands I would work with. So that was a good, I guess, filter. I would bring them in, and I would say "Okay. Play. Let me hear what you got", and I would I would sit there and see what the bass player would do, what the guitar player would do, what the vocalist would do, but also be without them even realizing it, I would gauge them and see how they work together as a band, or if I saw any red flags like if I saw that the singer was a prima donna, I'd already put a pin on that. I'd be like "Okay. Watch out for this guy because he might be a pain in the ass". So, if the band sounded good and I saw that they got along pretty well, then I would take the job. The first thing I would ask is "Do you want an engineer or do you want a producer"? Because those are two very different things. If you want a producer, you want somebody to actually produce you and say "You know, I am the producer of this band or I produce this song. I am going to have a say on the song. I am going to tell you if this bridge sucks. I am going to tell you the song is too long. I am going to tell you to work on the solo. I am going to tell you to change this melody". If you just wanted an engineer, then I am just going to record your crappy as it is, and I'm going to give it back to you and say "Here's your song". Those are two very different things. So, once you put it up front in the beginning, they already know what they're getting into. They already know I am actually going to have a say or I'm just going to stay out. So, of course, being a producer has a lot more responsibility because if the song sucks, you have your responsibility. It's up to you to make it better. But if they just want to record and they want you to stay out of it, that's fine. And usually, I've seen a lot of bands say "I just want to record the song as it is", or "I want the song to be like this, like so. And I already have a sound in my head, and I already have the direction I wanna go into". So, you just stay out of it, and that's it. But if they want to be produced, then they're gonna know it upfront.

Did you ever exchange your experiences with other producers or maybe even YouTubers who work as musicians and producers as well about what you've been through and what you worked with? Did you ever talk to anybody about what kind of studio equipment you use and what kind of bands you worked with?

No, only if they ask. I can share experiences, obviously, if they care to know them, but I don't think I am great enough to be handing down life experiences. You know what I mean?

Yeah, I understand completely. I know you're an active person when it comes to music in in various ways, but you also have your own band which is Excelsis Tenebrae, and you still have your EP "Eternity Denied" on Bandcamp and on YouTube as well, but that was 7 years ago when you released that. Have you ever worked on any new music afterwards?

Has it been 7 years already? Wow.

I think it has.

That's crazy. Okay. So great question. Just the backstory, Excelsis Tenebrae as a band or at least as a project, it exists since 2005, but it had a different name back then. The thing is that it was called Serpenthorn back when I was in Miami, and when I moved down to Argentina, I couldn't use that name because there's an Argentinian band called Serpent Door, which is very close to it. So, I didn't wanna conflict. I didn't wanna have to deal with it later on, so I didn't wanna use that name. So, I had to switch it to Excelsis Tenebrae, which is a name I actually came up with as opposed to Serpenthorn, which was actually my other guitarist's idea. And I was really never really into it, but I just wanted to play back then. I didn't care about the name. I just wanted to be out there playing. So, a lot of the songs were actually born back then, back when I was in high school, 2005/2006. So, it's really funny that back then, my songs were actually modern death metal, and now they're considered classic death metal. So that's really hilarious. And they're the same song, the same person playing them. It's just that it's changed so much that what used to be modern back then, now it's just classic. It's like a time capsule, I guess. But, there's a lot there's a lot of songs there. Like, whenever we went on tour, like in 2019 and 2020, we played nine of the songs that were actually going to be recorded, and seven of those songs are from back when it was called Serpenthorn, which is something I gotta do. I gotta record them at one point or another. I want to record them so that they're out there and they're done. And, as far as the band itself goes, since I moved and I wrote all of the songs, I could basically say that the band, quote-unquote, is me, and it goes where I go. So here, in Argentina, when I moved down here, I basically hired a drummer and a bassist, and we played them, and then when I go back and I tour the US, I play with my old drummer and I hire a bassist. I'm thinking about the fact that if I go back and move there permanently, I want to be able to just rehire my old guitarist or just get a new guitarist and get a permanent basis and then just work on these songs and new stuff as well. Now as far as the songs go, the old songs anyway, they're all recorded, except for the vocals and the guitar solos, but I have all of the drum tracks. I have the bass recorded by myself, and I recorded the guitar parts and the harmonies and basically everything. I just gotta sit down and do the vocals and do the guitar solos because I change them every so now and then. Like, I would revisit a song that I haven't played in ten years or maybe three years or maybe two years and then just come up with a new solo and then want to record that or maybe do a blend of the old solo and the new solo. So, I haven't put that into recording just yet, but the songs are there, and hopefully, they'll be out whenever I sort this out.

Sometimes you gotta know the right place and the right time to do things. Nobody can tell you when is the right place or the right time. You just know it at some point. You can feel it. But when it comes to Excelsis Tenebrae, at least it's good that you're not rushing the stuff that you already have prepared or at least when it comes to the stuff you had since the Serpenthorn days. If you're gonna rework on the songs, that will be amazing. I would actually love to hear what that would sound like in 2025 or whenever is gonna be recorded, should I say a modern take on this old school stuff. Even when you said back then you were considered modern, now you're considered old school, it somehow ties into this article that I read about cars which are now 30 years old are now considered old-timers, whereas old-timers used to be cars which are older than 40 and 50. Now, it's less than that. So, I guess people change their perspective on what's modern and what's retro, I guess.

Well, I guess technology. I mean, think about it this way. About 20 years ago, you would have the same phone for 10, 15, 20 years, and it wouldn't change. Now, it seems like you're gonna change your phone like every 3 years, otherwise it's just obsolete.

Oh, yeah. I agree because, I fucking hate it. My battery health at this point is 83%, but the phone is maybe 4 years old, I'm not even sure. I have had it for maybe 2 years. The worst part about phones being constantly replaced by new ones, it's good for companies to keep producing new phones, because the batteries aren't reusable, so you gotta either buy new batteries or a new phone. I wish I still had my old Nokia, which is like a fucking brick of a phone.

How long did you have that Nokia for?

I can't really recall. I had it in 2006. I can tell you that. I think I still have that old Nokia phone somewhere lying around in my house, and maybe it still works, but I could use it as a lethal weapon hahah.

Oh, yeah, definitely hahah. That'll bash your head right in.

Yeah. Those are what you would consider phones, at least something you would call a mobile phone. What we have right now are just like mini computers integrated to be mobile phones, because it's not just made because you wanna call somebody. You have a lot of applications and you have social media on it. You basically can do anything on it. It's a multi app device, or multifunction device. But, like we already said, times change and the perspective on things change. I was gonna ask you, have you been working on any new content for your YouTube channel?

Well, I've got a couple of ideas of things I wanna produce quote-unquote. The thing is that whenever I come up with an idea that I need to produce because it's a very time-consuming project, it's something I would have to really sit there and plan out and make. And a lot of times I think about it, and I really wonder if it's really worth it because most people watch a video for like 2-3 minutes and then they move on to something else, which is fine. I mean, I do it all the time too, but it would be putting in a lot of time and effort into something that's probably not going to make a difference, whereas whenever I come up with a video that it just sparks up, I just go ahead and record it quickly, edit it, put it up and people watch it. And then again, it's kinda like what we were talking about when it came to music. Like, when something just strikes up and you just record it and you put it up and it's super-fast. And in this part of the moment, basically it gets decent views, but then it dies out. Like, it would get, like a 1000 views in, like a day or a week and then it would just get like two or three a day from then on and then just eventually die out. Whereas when I actually put in the work and I plan it out and I actually make a well thought out video that I actually wanna make, it probably takes me a week to make or two weeks to make, but then it gets only like 20-30 views, but then it keeps getting views like forever. So, it's kinda like something that I gotta plan out long term. I gotta wait it out, and then eventually, it would probably outperform the quick video and then keep on outperforming it. But, you know, it's something I know I'm just not gonna see the results for a long, long time. So, I gotta basically juggle them and just make a quick video and then a long video and then a quick video and then a long video.

Is there any kind of content that you like to do for your YouTube channel? Is there something you wish you could do more frequently?

Honestly, my favourite videos to make were the top 5 videos. Like, what I would do are the top 5, you know, Black Sabbath intro riffs and I would just choose 5 songs, 5 riffs, record them, play them, say why I like them, call it a day, because they were fun to make. They were awesome to record. I get to play guitar, and they were just fun, but they don't really get a lot of views. And sadly, you know, what's in demand is what sells and that's what the channel needs to be now. Hopefully, if I get to be half as big as Glenn Fricker or any of those guys, then I'll be able to just record and do whatever the hell I want, and it'll get dis-infused anyway, but for now, I just wanna basically focus on whatever I think people want to watch, which is not necessarily what I wanna record right now, but it is what I need for the channel to grow and for it to start making some income so that I can reinvest that money into more gear for the channel.

Your last ranking video, if I remember, was with Black Sabbath. And I remember I was highly looking forward to that one because we exchanged messages back and forth.

I remember. You were really into it.

Yeah. The funny thing is, around that time we were actually both hunting for the remaining CDs that we were missing. And even if you don't like some of those albums, you still wanna have them on CD because it's Black Sabbath. Did you even consider purchasing that Tony Martin Era collection that was released this year?

Yes, I do want to have it. I just can't afford to buy it right now. But I did get all the CDs.

Yeah. I did too, actually, like, last year. There are 20 Black Sabbath albums, if you count "The Devil You Know" by Heaven and Hell too. I don't know if that was even included in your ranking list at all.

It was not.

Yeah. It wasn't. I thought so. I think it could have been easily there had it been just titled as a Black Sabbath album. In my opinion, it would have been a great closing chapter for Black Sabbath if 13 never happened.

Yeah. Totally. I actually got a lot of flack for that. A lot of people complain about the fact that I didn't include it, and a lot of people say "Hey, it's 20 CDs. It's 20 albums". And I said, "Well yeah". I know because I do understand that fact, and I do agree to some extent, but it does not say Black Sabbath on. It says Heaven and Hell, whereas, if I counted that as a Black Sabbath album, then I should have not counted Seventh Star as a Black Sabbath album. So that's 19 anyways.

Yeah, because that was actually meant to be a Tony Iommi solo record. We all know.

Exactly. So, I did include that because it says Black Sabbath on it, but I did not include Heaven and Hell because it does not say Black Sabbath on it. So, yeah, I mean, it's 19 albums either way.

Do you prefer collecting CDs or vinyl?

That's a good question. I actually prefer collecting CDs, and a lot of people are gonna freak out about it. But here's the thing. I grew up in the nineties, and we all had CDs. That's where I listened to and that's what I'm used to listening to. And then, actually, I don't wanna pat myself on the back, but I started collecting vinyl because before vinyl was cool, only because of the nostalgia effect and stuff, but also because of the fact that I like the big artwork. I could really sit there and look at the big pictures and stuff like that. So, I really enjoyed it. But once I played it, I'm just used to the sound of CDs. I love the sound of vinyl, but I like CDs better. And also, I hate having to flip a vinyl, especially when they have like 3 songs on one side and then 4 songs on the other. It's like, come on. I just wanna play it. I just wanna pop it in, hit go, and let it run.

Plus, CDs are much more affordable.

And they occupy a lot less space. I've got over, I don't know, about 600 CDs and they're just on a shelf. I've got about maybe 60 albums and they're heavy. They're annoying and they're also fragile. You gotta take care of the boxes and the sleeves.

It's a bitch, right?

Yeah. CDs, I could just toss in my car and just listen to CDs in my car, and I'll be happy. I can't take a vinyl record and listen to it in the car. It's just not gonna happen.

Exactly. I collect both, but I've actually been more into vinyl recently because you want to hold it and to play it and to look at the album cover and the sleeve and everything, it's magical, but even CDs are good. First of all, both are good because they're both physical media, and they have some cool liner notes. You can actually even read some info about what was going on around the time when that album was being made. For example, you have the Vol. 4 CD, you have the booklet and you can read all about the making of that album. It's crazy stories, and you can even flip the pages and see this very cool picture of Black Sabbath backstage. And I think there's even a picture of them standing in front of a castle, if I'm not mistaken.

Yes. I remember that picture. I mean, CDs are awesome.

Exactly. For somebody who grew up in the early 2000, vinyl was cheap because CDs were in, but also, times have changed again. So, vinyl is expensive, CDs are cheaper. If I'm gonna buy a record, I'm gonna buy a record that I really want to own on vinyl, but, generally, when it comes to cool albums, especially new stuff out there, I would prefer to have it on a on a CD simply because if I go out somewhere, I wanna play it in my car and just Totally. Like you said, it's much better than flipping over a vinyl, especially when you have double LP albums.

Oh, yeah.

They can only fit their entire tracklist on those two LPs when you can have it on one CD. It's a better medium. Plus, I don't really have to be as afraid when it comes to vinyl because vinyl is very fragile. And, you know, if something breaks, the whole thing breaks. But here, if the box breaks, I could just replace it.

I've replaced so many boxes. It's ridiculous. I mean, those jewel boxes, I've got albums I've changed the boxes on like 6-7 times, because I would take him anywhere. I've got the first couple of Queen albums I've ever owned on CD. I would take him every day to school. And every day, they would get banged up and they would fall out of my book bag. They would just go everywhere with me. So, I've changed the boxes on those things so many times. They're all faded out. I mean, it's awesome. I just look at them, and they're a part of me. They've been around with me everywhere, and I just love them. You can't say that with an MP3.

So, Pat, I gotta wrap this up now. Thank you so much for taking your time to do this, Pat.

My pleasure.

The pleasure is all mine, dude. It's been awesome talking to you, man. I am highly looking forward to seeing anything you'll do in the near future, and best of luck to you, bro. You're awesome.

Same here. Thank you so much. Wish we do it again sometime.

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