German black-thrashers Desaster don't need any big introduction. Always delivering great stuff. I had a very long and nice chat with guitarist Infernal K. about the new album and some things I had read in a German magazine. Out came a very interesting, funny and profound interview. Enjoy reading.

Michael

Hi Markus, my wife is always making fun of me that my first question usually is "how are you"? So this time let me ask you: are you crazy?

Haha, why, are you crazy?

Well, I read that you don't want to do another album any more. What's going on? You cannot mean this serious!

Well, you never know exactly. At the moment we really have come to the point that we felt it quite exhausting to record the album. We worked about nine months on it very intense and once again we had a lot of technical issues, the vocals lines had vanished and had to be recorded completely new so it was a complete disaster, as always. It is always difficult to do a whole album because we don't rehearse that often anymore. We rehearse once in a month or even once in two months and you also have to practice old songs for live gigs. And if you do a new album, you have to do ten more songs at each rehearsal and this is super exhausting. For sure we like the song writing the most but we want to focus more on some temporarily projects such as singles or EPs. My idea right now would be to release a single every time we have finished three songs and when three singles are released to put the songs as a whole on an album. This is something I can imagine but a whole album after four or five years, no let it be (laughs). I was short before a burn-out.

Well, to be honest, I guess releasing some singles and putting them on a full-length afterwards is something that might not be too popular for the fans…

You don't think so? I always thought that our fans are underground and I also like this kind of releases.

Hm, I don't have the best feeling with things like these. But this is my opinion, of course it is possible that everybody else thinks that this is a cool thing.

I think that these days it becomes more and more difficult to keep the people listing to a whole album. I have the feeling that nobody except us old farts nobody does that anymore. The younger people just listen on Spotify some songs, sometimes even just for 15 seconds and then they skip. I doubt that they have the patience listening to a record with a beer and to skip sides in the middle of the album. The listening habits have changed. Of course we wouldn't say that we don't make any more records because of that but it really is a phenomenon of the modern times.

Fair enough but then Hollywood could also say that they don't make any more movies because the kids can't follow the plot after 20 minutes.

To be honest, sometimes I like this thought. I almost watch series only where one episode lasts about 45 minutes. Best is half an hour. After that I cannot focus on it, haha! This "Lord Of The Rings" movie with three hours running time – no, for this I don't have any time and also no mood for that!

Then you have watch it in two sessions.

Yep, when we watch movies, they are split and I always fall asleep.

Yeah, we all don't get younger.

And what comes to all that, I have so much to do. I had with Moontowers, my other band, also a new album in creation process. It isn't released yet although we started earlier with that one and also there a lot of things went wrong. Only catastrophes!

Coming back to Desaster – if you would record some stuff again, what about the idea to re-record "Evil Arschloch" (means "Evil Asshole"in English) from your first demo? I mean, every day you can see so many evil assholes in the news and somewhere else.

Laughs. That's right! Then we could dedicate that song to a lot of politicians and many more, haha! What is going on these days is really strange. Due to that, the album title was created. In the past we had, apart from "Evil Arschloch" songs like "God Is Dead" or "Scream For Mercy". As Venom fans, it was mandatory that we sing about hell, Satan and demons. Of course it was never meant to be that serious. I have to do my outing here. I am actually no Satanist. I am sorry, dear fans! In the past we sang about the hell that is described in the bible which is some sort of fantasy book like "Lord Of The Rings", today we sing about the real hell. This is here. Just turn on the news. It is all around us. Our vocalist is quite pissed-off and lets it all out in his lyrics. All these self-proclaimed idols, all these politicians and religious fanatics that destroy the Earth and who are just led by greed and pull out the money out of the people's pockets to spend a luxury life themselves…it is really terrible what's going on in the world. So our vocalist said that he dedicates the album title to all of that. But everybody can put in his own idol into that. For some also teachers are idols, haha! And I bet that you have also some teacher colleagues about whom you might say that they failed in their profession. But they are put in front of the class as some kind of role models and you don't get rid of them. They are there and you have to suffer them for years. I had the same. I also had some colleagues who were really shitty. Nothing else to say about that.

Yes, sometimes it can be pretty hard, I know what you're talking about. Sometimes you even have to switch your place of work. But you can also have soccer player as idols, for example players from Schalke 04 (Infernals' favorite German soccer club which has a huge rivalry with my soccer club; M.).

Haha!!! I really would like to kill them although the new season is pretty good at the moment.

Yeah, I really hope that they will ascend into the first league again. I am eager for a derby once again. That was way too long this hasn't happened. But coming back to the lyrics and social criticism: "Towards Oblivion" also deals with the topic that we destroy our planet but that our planet is surviving us.

That's right. Our vocalist made some thoughts about that and it goes a little bit into the direction of "Learn To Love The Void" from our last album. It dealt with the fact that there were probably much lesser conflicts between people if there weren't having wars because of religion and to just accept that after death comes nothing. You would not need to argue who has the best religion and the greatest god or where the most beautiful paradise is but if everybody would accept the void, we had much more peace. Into this direction tends "Towards Oblivion" also, everybody can notice what is happening on Earth, all the greed mankind has and we are the worst predator on this planet and we don't only kill each other but take everything we can. I don't want to know how many species we already have become extinct since mankind exists. At a certain point we will extinct ourselves but okay, Earth will survive. I guess there will be some bugs left when mankind has ceased. I wouldn't even say it's social criticism, this is a difficult term but our vocalist is describing. He is describing the state of our world and he also doesn't want to change anything, he just says it is as it is and man is presumptuous and thinks that he is the pride of creation. Since the Age of Enlightenment we think that we are so rational but no. You can see it every day how rational mankind is. Because of that we will destroy ourselves at a certain point. That's just a determination and Desaster are producing the soundtrack to that.

And it seems that you took some natural science books to mind also. "Ash Cloud Ritual" with the volcanic eruption, Earth starts to freeze and become dark….and "Stellar Remnant" might be about something in space that explodes. Don't know exactly, I don't have the lyrics.

Exact. Our vocalist subscribes some scientific magazines which he reads with a lot of passion, especially about some theories that are presented there. So it's about the big bang theory, black holes and I don't know what. That's too high for me (laughs). When I was a kid, I was also interested in astronomy but it was more about knowing the planets (laughs). A black hole goes far beyond my imagination. But our vocalist is interested in these things and puts it into his lyrics. And there are also a lot of personal things in them. He had a period of insomnia lately where "Thrones Of Ecstasy" was created. I still didn't get the connection between sitting on a throne of ecstasy when you cannot sleep but he is processing all this in his lyrics.

Yeah, I can tell you…when I come back from class trips that lasted some days I also feel like having consumed a lot of drugs.

Yes, this state has an influence on you. This can be euphoric but it can make you mad also. He has to take care about his health; also his job is very exhausting. He is the organizer for some events in the association community. They are doing some concerts with cover bands like Deep Purple or Pink Floyd and I guess he underestimated how much work it is. This is a lot of public work and he doesn't like to be in the focus. He also doesn't like to be in the spotlight which you might not guess. He really doesn't like this star hype. "Kill All Idols" is also against this hype around musicians and he doesn't like when people are coming to him and worshipping him because he is the vocalist of Desaster. On the other side he also isn't the guy who would get autographs from other people.

I didn't like your new album that much when I heard it the first times but it took me some time to get used to it. First of all are some doom songs on it and with "Ash Cloud Ritual" you have this war metal song on it. Can you comprehend that some people might have difficulties with it?

I was very surprised that all reviews were great so far. In my private environment was only one person who said it wasn't his cup of tea. But music is personal taste, some things you like instantly, others not, some things you have to find into but of course I accept it when people don't like it. I won't change my song writing because of this and there are a lot of old fans that say we should do something in the vein of our first record with more black metal in it. Others say we should do more thrash metal – Desaster is a mixture of it all. I think we never had so many different things on an album like this time. Of course you can criticize that too because there is no common thread in it (laughs). But despite the fact that we have a punk song with "They Are The Law" and a super fast one with "Great Repulsive Force" you can always hear that it is Desaster.

It's just…when I got the promo and I always copy them on my watch, I wanted to go running but this was quite tough for me to get a good pace with that. Of course there are great songs on it and it is a good album but not easy listening. "They Are The Law" reminded me right from the start of "Iron Fist". Was that intentional?

That's more inspired by The Exploited. They also have a similar song with a bass at the start and we always wanted to do something like that. We all are punk fans and between the two albums we released this punk single with some cover versions ("Here Lies Desaster"; M.) and we always wanted to write a Desaster song in a punk dress.

"Ash Cloud Ritual" kicks off very slow but also has some war metal elements in it. Does it accidentally have anything to do with your other project "Doom Cult Commando"?

Haha, this is the whole time super fast stuff. This is also really great, I love it. There you can let loose and is something totally different. It was a lot of fun to make music with the guys and it can be that it had a little influence. We never had anything like that on a Desaster album before. I mean we had some fast black metal stuff but never such a blunt thrashing with a very simple riff and less melodies as possible. I thought that the song was very doomy in the middle part, even slower than Asphyx, and as a contrast something fast before and after that slow part would be cool and enhances more power to it.

The album cover is the first one after 20 years which was created by Chris Moyen. The last one he did for you is on "Angelwhore". Why did you ask him now once again?

That was more a coincidence it is 20 years now. It all was quite clear concerning the concept which was in our vocalists' brain. He had the title and a clear vision of what should be on the cover. Maybe you have recognized, it is a classic painting made by Caravaccio in the 16th century. He did a biblical scene called "Judith Beheading Holofernes". Holofernes was a general and they had conquered half of Palestine and oppressed the citizens there. Judith ensnared him and they had a nice encounter and the next morning she hit off his head and saved her people. It shall not have anything to do with today's politics, we don't interfere into that, but our vocalist liked this painting and also thought it would match perfect as cover and to the album title.

Well and soon the winter is coming and you move into your model railway basement?

Haha, actually I am quite often there. I have a dartboard there so I let the train drive, play darts and listen to music.

What model railway do you have?

I have a Fleischmann.

Ah, cool. I have a Märklin HO.

Yes, I have also HO. I inherited it from my dad and there is a cool story. My brothers are about 10 years older than me and at that time home births were quite often. One day the doctor came with the midwife to our house because my mother had contractions. So he came in and saw that model railway and was totally flashed. So he played with my dads' model railway and my mom was screaming. She wanted to deliver the baby and they played with the railway first. So I got the railways from my dad who died some years ago. I have it because of nostalgic reasons, I don't play with it every day nor do I work on it too often but I run it sometimes, think of my parents and the old times, this is really nice.

Yes, same here. So I have come to an end with my questions, the last words belong to you!

I want to say thank you to all our fans who in parts are accompanying us since our demo times. I talked to a guy lately who said that he even likes the new album, of course it isn't as good as the demos, haha! Since the demo they became shit, haha! But to be honest, every band has released their best album when they were young. You are fresh, wild and you have ideas and in the past all that was quite new. Today it is quite tricky to do something worldshaking. Even Iron Maiden – the new albums probably aren't bad but they never can reach "Killers" or "Number Of The Beast". We know it too and we know that our best ones were "Hellfire's Dominion" or "Tyrants Of The Netherworld" but still we have a lot of fans from the past and we won't win too many new fans anymore (laughs). But kids who like Midnight or stuff like that sometimes come to our shows and are telling us that they recently discovered us. Cheers to you all and thanks for the long support! We stay alive and even if we won't release a new album anymore there will be new stuff coming from us and also live we will move our old bones and get on stage.

Bavarian Drudensang are a quite mysterious and very unique band combining icy black metal with Bavarian mysteries. Not only the music is something very special but also the band behind, wearing special Krampus masks during their live rituals and being anonymous. Lately they have released their new EP "Geysterzvvang" via Folter Records which is a logical continuation of their first full-length "Tuiflsrijtt". Vocalist / bassist Krámpn brought some more light into that mysterious band, answering my questions. Enjoy reading and, if you still don't know the band, check their albums!

Michael

Photo Credits: NecroHorns

Hails Krampn, I hope you are doing fine! Drudensang is still quite unknown in the black metal scene although you already released a very good full-length ("Tuiflsrijtt") and lately a superb EP ("Geysterwvvang"). Maybe you can introduce the band a little bit more to our readers? 

Drudensang isn't a project seeking for attention. We're a tool, a vessel for what burns within and through us: The gloryfication of the devil, devouring darkness, macabre shadows of death. Our music is incantation and sacrifice at the same time – it shouldn't please, but have an effect. Who listens doesn't just encounter us but also something which is older than us.

I already said to Joerg that I don't really understand why you didn't release a complete album but an EP…what were the reasons for this step?

A work does not follow a plan, but the rhythm it sets itself. "Geysterzvvang" was too heavy to hold back and to standalone to be part of an album. We don't publish anything out of calculation, but because it forces us – and sometimes the deep abyss and the darkness gives birth to a shorter, but all more concentrated grimace.

You deal a lot with Bavarian saga and the nature in your area. How important is this folklore for you?

It's our blood. These stories, these forests, these mountains aren't just mere backdrop – they are the body from which we were born. Humans believe folklore is a fairy tale. Truth is, they are encrypted memories to what still haunts us. When we sing from these myths and legends, we sing from our origin and ultimately of the inevitable end.

A very special character you deal with is "Krampus" and you also dress like that. What makes this saga that special?

The Krampus is not just a folklore figure for kids to smile about. He is the grimace of the devil, the black beast that haunts every human soul in their sleep. He is the proof that fear and pleasure, punishment and salvation are inextricably linked. We're part of it and we don't wear the mask as a sort of show, but to embody him: the horror that is closer than you think.

Like Alice Cooper says that Alice is a character he is acting on stage, is this something similar to what you do?

No. We don't play a role. What we do on stage is a ceremony, a communion with our gods, a celebration in their honor. The rapture, this dehumanization that we assume when we detach ourselves from this reality and immerse ourselves in our world is not a show but an invocation. When we're on stage, we aren't just Drudensang – we are vessels through which the Krampus, the devil, and death itself talks.

Apropos these special masks – I've read that you are also the owner of Bavarian Krampus Arts. Does that mean that you create your masks on your own and if so, how do you do that?

Yes, the masks are created together with our carver S.P. through our thoughts, ideas and visions, similar to a Drudensang work, born of fire, horn, blood and sweat. Every cut is a wound, every notch is a curse. They are more than costumes – they're totems through which the ancient powers see. When we wear them, we don't wear masks but a face that was always there. However, this has little to do with Bavarian Krampus Arts. With Bavarian Krampus Arts I design Cover Artwork and Logos for other Bands and Projects.

Your lyrics are kept in German, mostly in a Bavarian dialect. I can imagine that it is a very fitting thing to sing in the language the folklore is about but don't you think that it might be a little obstacle to gain more popularity?

If popularity would be our goal, we would sing in English. Our texts are incantation and summoning. This only works in the language from whose soil it grew. The dialect is no obstacle, but a weapon which sharpens the ritual and makes it more real. Who wants to understand must dive deeper than words.

Musically you have a lot of symphonical, almost cinematic elements in your music that make it like an auditive trip through the snowcovered Alps. How important is creating this atmosphere for you as band?

The atmosphere is no accessory, it is the core. The music must sound like a storm in the Alps, like the crack of bones under ice, like the breath of the devil in your neck. Without atmosphere only raw Black Metal remains. Only with atmosphere gospel becomes a ritual.

Photo Credits: Lovodium

Listening to the aforementioned albums, I would say that Satyricon (the opening riff in "VVydergaenger" sounds a lot like "Mother North") or Emperor are your main influences. But maybe also Metallica when I listen to the intro of "Tuiflsrijtt"? Apart from this, what would you say are the biggest influences on you?

We don't really let ourselves be influenced by other bands, but of course we can't prevent this from happening subconsciously. Of course we hear Bathory, Mayhem, Dissection, Metallica too, Iron Maiden, Sodom and Morbid Angel or The Devil's Blood, but the biggest influences aren't mostly musically. Equally important are the church bells, the howl of winds, the voices of the Rauhnachts-Masks. Our biggest influence is the silence of the mountains that always smells like death.

Which five albums are a must-have when you are banned to a deserted shack in the snow-covered Bavarian mountains?

Bathory – Under the Sign of the Black Mark Dissection – Storm of the Lights Bane Funeral Mist – Salvation Krater – Urere Celtic Frost – To Mega Therion Even these five will fall silent, for the snow has a mightier voice.

Next month you are going to play at Damnation Fest in Oberhausen together with Primordial and Beherit. How excited are you about that?

Excitement is the wrong word. It is more like hunger. To share the stage with Beherit and Primordial means to mix blood with blood. We don’t go there to play a show, but to lit a ritual. And everyone who will be there, will either be consumed – or leaves the hall never to be the same again.

And now, the last words are yours!

To the devil be our glory! The devil's march goes ever on!

Thanks for the interview!!

Stay morbid!

Judging a book by its cover has never been trickier — especially nowadays, when so many covers are generated by artificial intelligence, often signaling laziness, indifference, haste, low budgets… or a bit of each.

The AI-generated artwork ended up drawing more attention than the content of Bone Collector (2024) itself. According to vocalist Chris Boltendahl, Grave Digger's 22nd studio album represents a return to the band's roots — to pre-keyboard times — and a move away from the conceptual and historical extravaganzas that, once groundbreaking, have since been exhaustively copied by newer acts.

Costly shortcuts aside, the record is one of the reasons why the German heavy metal veterans are packing their bags for yet another Brazilian tour — their thirteenth overall.

Reflections on the band's early days — now being rediscovered by Brazilian fans as Rock Brigade Records reissues those long-lost gems in beautifully crafted editions — and on the motivation to keep going, which Boltendahl sums up simply as "love for metal," also surface in the conversation below. At 63, he speaks about the bands of his youth with the gleam of someone who's just gotten his hands on a long-awaited new LP by Judas Priest or Van Halen, after hours waiting in line outside the record store.

Marcelo Vieira

Grave Digger will return to Latin America in 2025 for the Latin America Celebrations tour, including four shows in Brazil. What are your expectations for this new visit?

As usual, we hope that a lot of people come to our shows, that we have fun, and that we can celebrate a big heavy metal party with the people there, because we play a lot of classic stuff from the '80s and '90s, and two or three new songs from the new album. No songs from the Axel Ritt [guitarist (2009-2023)] era, so we're in good shape, believe me. We're really crazy, and the band sounds better than it did 20 years ago.

This will be the band's 13th time in Brazil. What makes the Brazilian audience so special for Grave Digger?

Because they are so enthusiastic, so wild, and they live heavy metal with every part of their bodies, you know, and that's something I really like. We have something similar here in the south of Europe, you know.

The itinerary includes cities like Brasília, Curitiba, São Paulo, and Limeira. Can fans expect differences in the setlist depending on the city, or will it be a unified celebration across all shows?

No, no, the setlist will be the same in every city.

The new album Bone Collector will be a highlight of the tour. What inspired the title and the concept behind this release?

There is... the concept is... there is no concept, you know. We did a lot of concept albums in the past, like Symbol of Eternity (2022), from Tunes of War (1996) to Symbol of Eternity — we did a lot of that stuff. But we're a four-piece heavy metal band. We never had real keyboards on stage, only sometimes with the Reaper. But now we're a four-piece band with guitars, drums, bass, and vocals. We're back to the band's signature sound. When we started with Axel, also in the beginning with Tobias [Kersting, guitarist], we had some keys from the MacBook, you know. But I killed them, because we don't need them anymore. Also, the songs with keyboard sounds sound much better live without keyboards, you know? So yeah, I think with Bone Collector we're back to the basics of Grave Digger.

How does Bone Collector connect with Grave Digger's tradition of blending heavy metal with history and dark themes?

This time we have dark stuff — no history anymore, you know. There are so many bands copying our stuff now, like the Templars, you know? If you see the new Sabaton album, they have all the Templar stuff and everything. Hey, we did this fucking shit back in 1998 [on the Knights of the Cross album] for the first time, you know! Why are they copying now what we did so many years ago? Because we did a whole album about the Templars. Symbol of Eternity is also an album about the Templars, you know. Anyway, we don't need concept albums anymore. We're writing songs right now for the new album, and they're also very different from the concept albums. But we still love horror and dark stories.

Were you in any way inspired by what's happening in the world today — the wars, the killings, the rise of the extreme right in Europe and the US, and so on?

Yeah, for sure. Because if you take a look at the TV, there's nothing else on it anymore — in the U.S., all the war around Ukraine, Israel, and Gaza. It's not inspiring us, but it's a tragedy. I try to take these current themes and put them into some heavy metal metaphor, you know, or place them in another era. But anyway, we're not a political band. We deal with these things, but not directly. I put them in my stories again, change them, and give them a different approach.

The cover art for Bone Collector was created using AI technology. What led you to choose this approach?

It was funny, because when I read about it, I started experimenting with it. I was sitting here, giving it prompts — oh, not bad; oh, another cover; oh, not bad. I sat here for two days just making Grave Digger covers, and one after another was better than the one before, you know? And then, after 600 covers, the one we used popped up. I said, "Oh, that's good, I want to use it." And okay, I'm an old guy, you know — I'm 63 years old — and I wasn't thinking much about what was happening with... I just said, "Oh, that's good, I'll take it." And then we got a shitstorm! Anyway, I like the cover because it represents the music very well. But we already finished the new cover for the next album, and that one is painted again.

How do you see the role of AI in the creative process of music and visual identity?

I think you can't stop it, you know. Tobias and I, when we're writing songs, we don't use AI to give us ideas or anything. Also, we write the lyrics ourselves. But I think many young people will use it, you know. We have the gift of being creative guys from the past. We've seen so many heavy metal bands, we've heard so many heavy metal bands, and we have a very good database in our heads to create new music. But for younger people, it's really hard. Maybe they'll use AI. But anyway, if they use AI, in 10 years everything will sound the same, you know?

When it comes to writing a new Grave Digger album, is it a matter of giving the fans what they expect to hear?

No, first we write the music we like, you know. And second, we think about what the fans will love, you know. But first, we do something for ourselves. We say to each other, "Hey, let's maybe write a song like Kill the King in Grave Digger style," you know? We also have our idols, the ones we grew up with, like Deep Purple, Rainbow, or Black Sabbath. And we use these influences for our music, you know. So we don't need AI for that — we have a lot of data in our heads.

Some fans in the metal scene have mixed feelings about AI-generated art. How do you respond to those who believe album covers should always be made by human artists?

I know that a lot of human artists also use AI, so... But the new cover looks different. It's very dynamic, with beautiful colors, and it's totally different from the last one. I think people will see that it's not an AI cover. You can use tools — you can put the cover inside, and the tool will quickly find out if it's AI or not, you know. And with the new one, it's not possible, because it's 0% AI, you know.

This tour also celebrates Grave Digger's 45th anniversary. Looking back, what moments in the band's career are you most proud of?

I think it was the 25 to Live show in São Paulo. It was an amazing event. I also remember when we started in the '80s — '81, '82 — when we played small shows for 15 people. I played guitar, I had a very cheap guitar, and I burned it. I played on stage like Jimi Hendrix, you know. So many funny things happened in my career. Also, the 45th anniversary we celebrated this year at Wacken, where my son was on stage with us, and Uwe Lulis joined us again for two songs — that was great. It's always the small things in life, you know, that are really cool.

What do you think has been the key for Grave Digger to remain strong and relevant for nearly five decades in heavy metal?

We love heavy metal. That's a very, very short answer. We believe in heavy metal. We love heavy metal. And I think heavy metal can heal a lot of things. Making music, being creative, keeps you young. That's all. There's no special magic behind it. I think heavy metal is magic — so that's cool.

You've been the voice and face of Grave Digger since the beginning. How has your relationship with music and with the fans evolved over these 45 years?

The relationship with the fans is more or less the same. But the spirit has changed a lot these days, you know. When I was a kid, a young boy, I went to the record shop and waited in front of it for the new Judas Priest or Van Halen record or something like that. It was like the Holy Grail — putting the vinyl on the record player and listening to it. I think when I was young, music was more of a culture. Nowadays, with all the streaming stuff, it's more like McDonald's, you know. Yeah, it's a bit more than fast food because you can listen to everything on Spotify, but the magic behind the music is lost a bit. But I think in the heavy metal scene, we're really happy that it's still more present than in the rap or pop scene. Heavy metal fans are more dedicated to their idols and their bands.

Rock Brigade Records recently reissued Grave Digger's first three albums on CD in Brazil. Could you share your thoughts on each of these albums today — what Heavy Metal Breakdown (1984), Witch Hunter (1985), and War Games (1986) meant to the band at the time, and how you feel about them looking back after all these years?

Yeah, we were young and always drunk. It was a really, really funny time. There are so many stories I could tell you about the recordings that would fill an entire evening, you know. It was a good time — a different time. And I don't want to miss that time because it was so much fun. It was unbelievable. I'm an '80s guy, and I'm so happy. If I die tomorrow, I can say, "Hey, I had the best time of my life."

Beyond the tour, what are the band's next plans? Can fans expect new recordings, special releases, or perhaps a live album from this celebration?

Yes, there will be a live album. We have our last show of the year on December 27. It's already sold out with 750 people. It's in Glauchau, in Germany, and we'll celebrate it. It's the last show in the club [Alte Spinnerei], which will be closed after that. We'll be the last band on stage there, and we'll record it live. It will be released as a bonus CD in 2027 when we release the new album.

Finally, what message would you like to leave for the Brazilian fans who have been with you for so many years and are now preparing for this special tour?

If you want to hear songs from the '80s and '90s, plus a couple of new ones, come to the show. You won't be disappointed, because we're in the best shape of our lives.

Few months ago Alcoholic Vortex has released "Space Traumas – Part II: Attack of the Yarells," the second chapter in the intergalactic saga the Brasilia-based band has been developing in the thrash metal universe. The album has already been featured in specialized media outlets and profiles this semester, both in Brazil and abroad, solidifying the band as one of the most creative names in the new generation of Brazilian metal. In this conversation, bassist and vocalist Victor "Chuck" Rascal discusses the creative process, the underground scene, and plans for the next chapter of the space saga. Enjoy!

Marcelo Vieira

"Space Traumas – Part II: Attack of the Yarells" is finally out! How has the response been from listeners, the press, and the scene overall in these early days?

It's been very positive, both nationally and internationally, even appearing on some specialized profiles as one of the best releases of the semester.

The band has built a cosmic narrative connecting this new album to the first one. Where did the idea to tell this intergalactic saga within the thrash metal universe come from? Are you a sci-fi fan, or did it come about spontaneously?

Actually, the story will unfold in at least three chapters. The idea came from some dreams I had, which inspired me, along with my curiosity about space and physics themes.

For those unfamiliar with the story, who is Warren Jackson, and what can we expect from him in this sequel?

Warren Jackson is a passionate headbanger whose life has always been intertwined with Heavy Metal, through good times and bad. One day, while attending a routine event, he is abducted by aliens, which kicks off this saga.

Musically, the album maintains the weight and aggression of the first release, but what did you aim to evolve or explore differently in this second chapter?

We tried to add more atmospheres, harmonies, vocals, and make it a bit darker, because it's about invasion and domination. We wanted to convey the struggle and the intensity of the moment.

Is there any song on the album you consider particularly special or that was especially challenging in the studio?

I think every track was equally challenging because many ideas emerged directly in the studio. The synergy between the band and the production team made this possible, and I believe that was a real differentiator.

Speaking of the studio, the album was recorded between October and November 2024 at Studio Hangar 408, with the band directly involved in the production. How was that process? Do you prefer having that creative control, or do you ever miss working with an external producer?

It was a true partnership. Hangar 408 isn't just a studio—it's part of the band. Nilson and Arthur contributed crucial ideas and touches, and the band was heavily involved in every aspect. It became a fantastic team effort, and we're really proud of the result.

The album's artwork, created by Márcio Aranha, complements the band's space concept. Did you actively participate in the visual development, or did you give the artist full creative freedom?

Márcio is also part of this team. I just give him a little thread of an idea, and he adds his own touch. His imagination brings a special sauce to the work, giving life to things that previously only existed in my mind.

Brasília has been known for its rock scene since the 1980s, but metal—especially thrash—doesn't always get as much attention. How do you see the scene for bands like Alcoholic Vortex in the city and in Brazil overall?

I think thrash definitely stands out—just look at bands like Violator, Evil Corpse, NW77, Axion, Transtorno Nuclear, and many more. I could go on all day. I see these bands carving out their space in the national underground scene, just like bands I've seen in other regions: North, Northeast, Southeast, and South. It's a very promising scene, with increasingly powerful riffs, which, in the end, is what really counts!

The band seems to be in an intense creative phase. Can we already think about the future? Is there a "Part III" planned, or are other ideas brewing?

Part III is already about 75% composed. I like to think the band is showcasing its creative power and maturity. I really like the direction things are taking, and it's fascinating to look back and see this growth from the very beginning.

Finally, what can never be missing from an Alcoholic Vortex member's "survival kit" before a show or recording session?

I'd say: a cold beer, imagination, and riffs… Yeaaaah!

Gorgon is one of the oldest black metal bands in France existing since 1991 and has established a very good reputation in the scene ever since. With "For Those Who Stay" they released a very nice old-school and traditional black metal album in 2024 and I had the pleasure to see the guys live a few weeks ago at Under The Black Sun. Actually I haven't read too many interviews with the band so I decided to send some questions to Christophe Chatelet. So welcome to the world of Gorgon, you are invited to dive a little bit deeper into the ideas of the band.

Michael

Hey Chris, how are you doing?

Hello, everything is going great here, we have a few concerts coming soon, so we are rehearsing often.

I must confess that I was very impressed when I saw you guys lately at Under The Black Sun festival. Did you enjoy the audience and the location?

The audience was a bit static, but it was also a way to really enjoy the concert and watch in detail what was happening on stage. In addition, as there were many bands, it's understandable that the crowd cannot physically move and cheer on all the performances of the day. But, given the merch sales and the comments received following our show, we can only be very grateful for all the support that resulted. As for the venue, nothing to complain about, its location is in a  relatively isolated area, therefore, ideal for a mass gathering with loud music. The setting also allowed you to see what is happening on stage from many view points on the site. Finally, let's not forget the organization, which as a group effort, was really professional and friendly from the moment we arrived and provided great stage conditions. We all keep very good memories from that festival.

Gorgon is one of the oldest black metal bands from France. But you had a long, 16-years lasting hibernation with the band. What was the reason for that and why did you restart in 2017?

The drummer who recorded our 4th album had warned us that he would leave the band once the sessions were finished because he was stopping playing drums. So we had to look for a new drummer and rehearsal space, and the one we had found, once all the work of learning the live tracks had been done, did not give us satisfaction during the 2 concerts we did together. It demotivated us to have to start all over again with someone new. Also, the appearance of dozens of BM bands created when it was fashionable and the style was becoming popular in the media, made us take a break, which ultimately was longer than expected. Over the years, I was always confronted with the group because a split CD with unreleased tracks was in preparation for years from 2005 (and released in 2011), our first album was re-released on CD in 2010 on the English label Totestrieb Records, then on vinyl in 2017 (while it was planned for the 20th anniversary in 2015) on the Mexican label Rex Bagude, .... Therefore, projects took a long time of preparation and kept me "in the universe" of Gorgon. This made me want to come back, especially when I saw BM groups on stage, I didn't find any energy, no hatred whatsoever, and I wondered how would it be like if we were on stage instead of them. In December 2017, I made the decision to come back and compose a mini CD, for convenience, which ultimately turned into an album, "The Veil Of Darkness" with the support of our label Osmose Productions which released it in early 2019.

Is there a special philosophy within the band?

I think that if there is a philosophy, it is more a philosophy of life and thoughts, built over time, than a determined "program" to which we must conform. Also, since it is something natural for us, we do not have to impose specific barriers on ourselves. We follow our own path.

You have released four albums before you split – are they still available as physical editions. I am honestly not the biggest fan of streaming and downloads….

Osmose Productions reissued our first 2 albums both in CD and vinyl versions in 2019 (as well as our only 1992 demo only on CD because it already existed on vinyl). Non Posse Mori Records (associated with the distributor Goetie Exhumation) reissued our next 2 albums in November 2020 in a CD digipack version. At the moment, our first 4 albums are still all available. A limited edition cassette version of the 3rd album has even existed since September 2024 on the Chaoscibel label.

“For Those Who Stay” is your latest release. I was always wondering about that cryptic album title. Maybe you can explain the meaning behind it a little bit more?

Very often, when I went to see an elderly member of my family who lived alone and far from where I lived, this person would tell me as my departure approached that I would return to my job and other daily activities, that I would be busy, while she would find herself all alone. Also, the hardest part was not for those who leave but for those who stay. I transposed this onto the concept of death where the hardest part is generally not for those who leave "to the other side", but for those who stay here and have to face this absence.

It sounds very traditional with a lot of thrash vibes on it. What are your major influences musically?

I come from this school that listened to Venom, Bathory, Bulldozer, Sarcofago, Celtic Frost, Torture, Impaled Nazarene and where sometimes purchases were made thanks to a cover with an evil, satanic side, which attracted attention. There are things that I do not want to include in the compositions of the band, but if a riff sounds good to me and is a little outside of what is generally done, then I take the plunge. After so many albums, I have to offer ideas that surprise or see us explore different sounds while remaining consistent in our approach. And I know for a fact that it will be like this in the titles to come. There are so many bands that blindly follow what is done, what pleases the masses. We prefer to stay away from that and follow our instinct, but above all, to play what we like without cheating on what we will offer to the public.

Apropos traditional, the French black metal scene is more or less quite different from other scenes with a lot of dissonant and avant-gardistic stuff. Do you want to distinguish Gorgon from that scene intentionally with that?

No, not particularly, we just do our thing without worrying about what others are doing. But if we don't fit into the same niche as other French bands, that's fine with me too. Having our own identity is more valuable than being integrated into any movement. This doesn't devalue other bands in any way, it's just that we offer what we feel, without asking if it corresponds to what's happening around us.

Which bands from France do you personally appreciate?

I like Funerarium, Excruciate 666 and a few others. I don't have a lot of time to listen to them, so I probably miss out on bands that I would like, but that's how it is.

When you played at UTBS you had three more members on the stage – are they stable members or were they just recruited for live gigs?

The drummer is the one who has been with me live since the band's return in 2019, and he is also the one behind the drums on the latest album. The 2nd guitarist and the bassist arrived a little over 2 years ago and have performed all the concerts since then in Canada, Sweden, Spain, Switzerland, Italy, Romania, etc. This trio, with me, forms the official line-up of the band, and as the understanding between us is going well, we will continue together as long as possible.

Are there some more shows you're going to play in 2025 and what are the upcoming plans for next year, if you already have them?

Barring any changes, we have two consecutive concerts remaining in 2025, first in early October in western France as headliners and then at a festival.

For the following year, we'll be playing at a festival again in northern France at the end of January. For the rest of the year, between five and six dates in Italy and France are in the works, but there's nothing official that I can announce today. Some organizers, due to their structures, set up their dates more or less far in advance, others don't, so we have to wait for their final bill before promoting their events.

The final words belong to you!

A huge thank you for the exposure and support that these few lines will bring us. Even if you are not a fan of "virtual" music, this means can allow people to discover us, and then support us more actively if they later want physical copies. Also, I encourage those who do not know to go listen to part of our discography on the web, and then write to us if they want to encourage us by purchasing the CDs, vinyls or t-shirts of their choice. Their presence at our next concerts will also be a much appreciated support and also another way to discover us.

Slow Fall is still a not too well-known melodic death metal band from Oulu, Finland. Having released their second album "Obsidian Waves" on a small German label probably won't change their status much but when I had the opportunity to talk with Juho Viinikanoja (git.) and Markku Kerosalo (bass) and got the chance to know the band a little bit better I took it without hesitation. Their music is simply outstanding in my opinion and should be appreciated much more than it is, so go ahead and support the band, check out the interview and before you finish reading you will know the connection between Bruce Springsteen and Slow Fall! Enjoy!

Michael

Hey, how are things in Finland?

M: Everything's totally fine – winter is getting close (laughs).

J: Yes, it's so fucking cold all the time (laughs).

I have to confess that I didn't know you until Brigitte, your booker, hooked me up for an interview! Maybe you can introduce yourselves a little bit more to our readers?

M: Well, Slow Fall was formed in 2016, here in Oulu, Finland. We are playing melodic, melancholic death metal, I guess that's what you can call it (laughs). We have released two albums and one EP.

Is there a deeper meaning behind the band name – does it mean that you are falling slowly or is it about the season, that the fall is coming slowly…?

M: It's both. It's about the autumn, when all life slowly withers and dies and the season is getting towards the winter. And it does mean that you are falling really slowly towards your death. You have a lot of time to think about your life and the fall as a time of the year has the same kind of mood to me.

J: In another interview they asked the same question and I said that it is a slow fall towards the inevitable that awaits us all.

Ah, it is always nice to talk to Fins, it is always so positive, haha!! You have released two full-length albums so far, the last one "Obsidian Waves" last June. I personally get much reminded of Amorphis with the clear and growling vocals and also the melodies are somewhat similar. Are they your major influence?

M: Yeah, it's definitely one of those. When I grew up listening to metal music, I listened to a lot of Amorphis I have to admit but it's not the only one. We are definitely not trying to sound like Amorphis. I think that the melodic aspect of Amorphis and us is similar of course but I think that's in our DNA.

What are your other influences? I can see a picture of the Beatles in your room, Markku.

M: Yeah, the Beatles are one of my favorite bands but I don't think that you can hear a lot of Beatles in our music. Music in general, I listen to all kinds of music, metal is just one. But of course you can bring up names like Opeth, that has always been a huge influence to me, Swallow The Sun, Insomnium, Amorphis, Sentenced.

J: All of us have a very varied taste in music. We have six dudes in the band and once we gather around to write new songs, we all put our own stuff in it and at the end it sounds like Slow Fall.

M: Like I said, just like our band name, when the fall is coming after the summer and it is turning to winter, you are getting all the darkness (laughs). Maybe I should compose some music then. I don't know, it's just the darkness and coldness which brings us up all day this melancholy and the mood, I guess.

J: I would add to that in order to understand Finnish metal bands you should live in the north of Finland for a while. I think that explains a lot. When you live here and you play metal it turns out to be something like this.

What are the lyrics about – death, depression, darkness?

J: I wouldn't say that they are all themes in our lyrics. They are a lot about personal stuff like handling your emotions on the new album. There is a little quintessence of hope also. I ended up as the main lyric writer. I wrote a lot of songs about time and leaving a mark behind you when you leave this world. How would you like to be remembered? There is a lot of different stuff, it varies a lot.

Are the lyrics very direct or more hidden behind some metaphors?

J: They might look pretty complex at first but my type of writing lyrics is that I just start writing about something and then it gets some sort of meaning while writing the lyrics. I might not have a very clear vision at first of what I'm writing about but it comes from me and it can get a meaning in the future. So I come back to it later and get an idea what it might be about. But it is hard to say, I don't want to describe my lyrics that much (laughs).

You are currently signed on Out Of Line Music, a small German label? How did they notice you and why did you decide to get signed by them?

M: Well, when we were making our second album, Obsidian Waves, we made a demo out of four songs and sent them all over the world. Before even Out Of Line contacted us because of the demo, we were already speaking about that if Out Of Line Music would contact us and would like to sign us that we should go with them. Our friends in Mors Subita are also signed by them and I heard a lot of good things about that label from them. Also another of the biggest Finnish metal bands, Bloodred Hourglass, are signed by them, too. It's a good, decent, small record label and we thought that they would make a good deal with us.

Is it still possible to purchase your first album or is it completely sold out?

M: I think that some record stores here in Finland still sell it. But it was released with our previous record label, so I don't even know where to get it.

When you think of the Finnish metal scene, has the hype around heavy metal a little bit flattened in the last few years? When I think of the 90s when almost every 3rd black metal band came from your country, not to forget bands like Sentenced or Children Of Bodom? I mean metal is still very popular in Finland when I think about that even Satanic Warmaster was in the Finnish album charts but there isn't so much stuff coming from there lately.

J: Yes, it's a mess. Even our first album was in the Finnish album charts on #2.

M: Yeah, it was #2 behind Bruce Springsteen (laughs). So we lost to The Boss but that's okay.

J: But to answer your question, there is a lot of stuff coming out from everywhere. Not just Finland but from everywhere. Now that we're in that "music business" everybody tries to survive with all these streaming stuff and gigs.

J: Yeah, Finland is flooded with bands but there aren't so many places to play. It's only a handful of locations where you can play metal in Finland. There are about 10 to 20 places and about 500 bands who try to play there every night.

Do you have some plans to go on tour next year?

M: We have some plans but it's still in the works.

The last words belong to you!!

J: Please listen to Slow Fall. It's available everywhere on major streaming platforms and YouTube and there's also physical media and cool merch available.  Feel free to check out our music!

I love "Winds Blow Higher"; it was the most thought-provoking album of recent years for me. Sleepless is a band that has sprouted from two radically different Israeli musical visionaries. David Bendayan and Maor Appelbaum have two vastly different perspectives towards the music scene, yet both are able to find solace in the musical project known only as Sleepless. David represents the more mainstream and jazz avenues of music, while Maor prefers his recipes dark, brooding and extreme. I spoke to Maor on the phone in Israel and he was gracious enough to provide me with sufficient information to compile at least half a biography on himself and Sleepless. We talked long into the night...

Jack 'Odel'


How did Sleepless come together? I'm not too sure concerning the details of the Israeli music scene, was it hard to find someone else with the same sort of general approach to music? Were you friends previous to Sleepless or did you bump into each other at the local bar or something...

We knew each other from school and stuff, but we weren't in the same grade or anything. Once I took a ride with David's friend, because I wanted to go to a place and you know I asked him 'can I take a ride with you to this place?' and he was like 'yes' and we started talking. I was into sound engineering and David was working on some of his stuff, but he was not working on engineering anymore. So I gave him some tapes and I had some equipment, a few microphones and he had a bit of equipment, but it was really bad you know? Anyway, we had to work with some really bad equipment, a bad sound card, a bad computer and we did some improvising with music samples and the material turned out really well. All this improvising that David and I did actually turned out to be something very productive.

So from what you told me it sounds as though Sleepless was an accidental occurrence, is this correct?

Well it is like a big fusion of a lot of elements, some of them we were doing on purpose and then again some of them we were not doing on purpose. So what happened actually is that we were taking a lot of elements that we liked and a lot of elements we didn't like all that much. I come from a lot of different musical perspectives; progressive, gothic, metal; all types of metal you know? Doom, heavy metal, true metal, speed metal and also industrial. David comes from a more mainstream background and had some jazz stuff and I also like some jazz. However the point I need to make is that a lot of stuff influences me, even though I don't hear it. So in the end it (Sleepless) is between a progressive style of the 70s, like King Crimson, Pink Floyd and Genesis to the stuff with a gothic vibe, like Sisters of Mercy to more alternative stuff, like The Cure to more metal stuff, such as The Gathering and Arcturus to more avant-garde, like Devil Doll.

Now, you were speaking before that you did sound engineering. What musical background do you have for Sleepless? In terms of education... I mean "Winds Blow Higher" draws upon many, many varying musical styles and tastes.

I worked with sound engineering, a lot of years I was working with many bands coming to Israel and I was doing technical supervision for productions and gigs. I was doing lighting engineering, sound engineering, mastering, mixing, backlining. I work with a lot of bands when they come here (Israel); Alphaville, you know the guys who sing 'Big in Japan'? I worked with them as a technical supervisor and technical producer. I studied sound-engineering for 1176 hours and then I started working in studios as a sound engineer and after that evolved to broadcasting. I have a diploma of sound engineering. But mainly I have a lot of experience and I also teach audio engineering.

Is David in the same boat for background/education?

David is not educated in terms of sound engineering but he is self-taught. Both of us are not musically trained in terms of proper schooling. I play bass, but I don't know the theory of playing and theory of music. We just play. Also in sound engineering I started in PA and stuff like that, later on I studied it, but after I was already working on it, you know? Today I manage studios and I am an audio-consultant at the University of Tel Aviv. David is more into computers, but both of us really didn't study many instruments. I really don't have any theory background; I just played in bands from when I was younger. At the ages of 16 or 17, I was in a speed metal band so I really had to play well, everyone else was really competent, and I had to show what I could do. I worked hard to play well. Then I had a rap-metal band much like Anthrax style, Public Enemy influences... I played more in different projects and also I play other kinds of music. I have a solo album only on bass guitar and sound samples/effects, which is dark ambient, experimental and avant-garde.

Wow! What label is the solo bass album on?

I only have songs on compilations... but I have a finished album and have some labels already interested in it. I have one compilation in Israel, three compilations in the US and one compilation in Australia, also. And I have another project, which is not limited to bass guitars. The one that is limited to bass guitars is called Screening. [Maor then goes on to mention 5-6 projects that he is working on, but due to static I couldn't make out the names].

So Sleepless is your main thing?

Sleepless is a project, I have another main band of mine which is an industrial, techno, hardcore and metal band called Vultures and we have finished an EP of 4 tracks; 3 of which are songs and the 4th is a remix of song not appearing on the EP. Vultures is produced, mixed and mastered by me. Sleepless is mixed, mastered and produced by both of us.

Sounds great, let me ask how did the name for Sleepless come about?

Ahhh... because there is one song I really like by Anathema, I knew the music of Anathema, but I wished all the songs would be like that, you know? And the second thing is because I am always sleepless. Right now as we are speaking I have gone 24 hours without sleep.

Geez, why is that?

I don't sleep much, because I am thinking all the time...

You waste time sleeping?

I dunno... 5 years ago when we started Sleepless, we worked 2 years on the demo and after the demo I would come home from work and then I was the chief engineer of a broadcasting studio at a university in Israel. I would come home at 11pm and then I would work until 4am for promotions to get a label to sign us up. Then I would sleep maybe 3-4 hours before having to go to work again.

[Laughing]...ah ok...lovely.

Yesterday, in fact for 2 days now, I have been doing mixes for an album by a student of mine who does abstract/electronica stuff. I did 24 hours of mixes for this album and I have not had sleep since yesterday.

Speaking again of music backgrounds, what music do you listen to? The "Winds Blow Higher" album uses some harsh vocals, some jazz elements etc, etc.

Umm... I can tell you that a lot of stuff that I have done I did it without knowing, like Screening, when I worked on it 4 years ago and started thinking about it and I didn't hear that kind of music that Screening is, and did not know that such a sort of music existed. But I wrote that kind of music, and today I think there is a genre like that. So a lot of stuff if you do something without listening to a particular style of music, but still come up with that specific style, to me it says that the music comes from the heart. Sleepless is something that from my point of view Devil Doll were really inspirational for me. The first time I heard Devil Doll, I was like 'Wow! This is progressive but it is very dark and avant-garde'. Also of lot a metal, too. I am the main metal DJ here in Israel too and I got of a lot the stuff here in the clubs I play in, that wasn't played previously. Like King Diamond, Dream Theatre, Blind Guardian, Manowar, Overkill and even Rammstein. I hear a lot of kinds of music. David, as I said before is more mainstream, and some jazz stuff, and he has his own Hebrew stuff he is working on.

You have composed songs as long ago as 1997, yet "Winds Blow Higher" was released in very late in 2001, how come the time difference writing songs took sooooooooo long for you to release "Winds Blow Higher"?

What happened is this: the thing is when we started recording we had a computer that was only 166mhz or even less, the soundcard was really bad and the equipment was so bad. But we started recording and all of Sleepless was actually improvising and working on it. It took us two years to make a demo of five tracks. After that it was quite hard to redo and record those tracks because they had a very good vibe in them and it was hard to 'renew' that vibe. We worked very hard in improving and improving and doing better mixes and tweaking it to make it sound better. That music was written then and it is the same music as today. As time wore we bought better equipment and kept improving the sound quality. They are actually the same tracks, we worked on them very hard and did a lot of productions from the demo and to the demo and we got fantastic reactions from people. The reactions were great, we got 5/5 and 7/8, a lot of good reviews and we tweaked it to make it sound better.

If you and David had by chance only been able to stick with the poor sound quality of 1997, would you have gone about releasing a Sleepless album, despite the sound quality?

Well the time that we were shopping for labels in 2-3 year period, we sent more than 200 demos and all the labels said, 'yeah, this is great original music, but we are afraid to release it on our label, but is too risky because you are new band,' you know what I mean? So all that time gave us even more time to work on the sound quality even more.

So how did you come across working with The End Records? As I understand you signed to Raven Music in Israel?

I know Andreas, and he liked the music, but at the time he wasn't sure and when Raven released "Winds Blow Higher"; or when one label releases something then people can jump and work with it, you know what I mean? So what happened is a lot of people wanted it, but they were all afraid to release it and when Raven Music took it, (and Raven I also knew from a long time ago) it seemed they were not afraid anymore. In the beginnings we had recordings on cassette and it had a potential. In time we worked on the demo and improved. And the labels saw we were getting better and better. We got more Internet access and people became aware of it and we began to get more airplay, and reviews in magazines. So people were interested in what was happening and when Raven Music released it, it sold really fast and reviews poured in. And in the end, The End Records really liked it. And Sleepless fits with what The End Records was working with.

Do you listen to the other bands' music on The End Records roster? There seems to be a underlying element that you could draw a line through all the bands that form The End Records and come together with a single identifiable element that makes an The End Records band... do you agree? Like Arcturus and Winds...

Right... and Green Carnation.

Yeah, absolutely.

So we fitted as the mellow part, you know? Mellow, more jazzy, more dramatic, more melancholic music. Don't get me wrong, we have some peaks in our music but they are not really aggressive.

Does Israel provide a big market for your sort of music? As I said previously, I am unsure of the music scene over there, could you maybe let me in on a few specifics?

We don't rely on the Israeli market, but lately the sales have been really good. You see, David and I come from different scenes, ok? I was sure the Israeli scene could handle Sleepless, but there were a lot of people who were skeptical about us. I said it could be because that we are a crossover band; progressive, metal, gothic, avant-garde and alternative. For the metal labels we were too progressive; for the progressive labels we were too gothic, for the gothic labels we were too metal, know what I mean? For each one, we were too something else [laughs].

[Laughs] Yeah I know what you mean...

...So in the end the crossover is good because is it more fitting and original to various people. But at the beginning many were skeptical about the potential for sales from a crossover band in Israel. But the sales in Israel are very good if you compare it to a lot of other stuff. We have sold quite well in Israel and in the US, also. Europe too also, I hope. I don't know how well it is going in Australia though.

...Well at the moment I am actually trying to establish a distribution for The End Records and their bands to get distributed down under.

Great!!! This is very important to me because now with all the things with terrorism and terror everyday for us this is something to show the world and that we are suppressed by terror everyday that we still make music and don't preach.

Yeah well hopefully more quality music will be able to be heard in Australia.

I really respect that, it is important to me as an Israeli band. For someone that has sent 200+ demos and got no, no, no, no every-time. And for five years I have been working on Sleepless and I respect a lot that people can buy it outside Israel because this is something against terror. And this is something we can show that says, 'look we are an oppressed and troubled land, but we can still make music'.

Speaking of which, would I be overstepping the mark asking what the current situation between Israel and Palestine is like at the moment? Is it hectic for you living there?

I don't have a problem telling you that, the best thing I can tell you is that when you are here, you will understand. I can say a lot of stuff, but it won't help anything unless someone is here. If you are feeling endangered all the time and fear of bombing and shooting, then you are living a different life. You are afraid to ride the bus, afraid to go to the mall and to a pub. You know 500 meters from my house there were two shootings and a bomb? Also from my friends' and my girlfriend's house and when people go to pubs they explode. So I can't explain really to an outside person. The best way to explain is to tell to someone to try living in this situation. I can tell people this, but they will say, 'yeah, but why do you do not try peace?' I am not against peace, I want peace. But it is very hard to make peace when you are living in the way and people are threatening you, and they are not threatening soldiers but civilians. It is different, it is not war against armies, but war against civilised people.

It is terrorism, isn't it?

I can't explain politically what is right and what is wrong, but the best thing is to understand is if you see TV then it is not enough. To really understand you have to live in this situation.

Hmmm... from my point of view terrorism in any shape or form is not on. One only has to look back to the September 11 attacks.

Yeah for sure, look at September 11? Look what happened? Try and make peace with the terrorists and they will surprise you. They don't do it for reasons you can understand, suicide and such. Really something you can't explain. Mothers are sending their sons to it and it is not like they are gaining something for it. There are always extremists.

...And you can't reason with someone in this frame of mind.

And that affects our music because even though we don't show it aggressively, people don't feel right, you know? We feel very sad. We are trying not to put in under the table, but we are trying to live with it. I mean it probably makes us stronger, but we still fear a lot of stuff. And a lot of the lyrics that I write are general lyrics about relationships; friends, love, feeling under pressure, terror. And the music of Sleepless flows with these general lyrics.

Now as we were previously speaking about The End Records and their bands, do you listen to many of them?

I like the Green Carnation album, I can't remember if is their second or third album. Arcturus is a band that I like, actually I started listening to them after I was involved with Sleepless. When I was doing DJ work I remember there was the first black and green album from Arcturus [Maor is referring to "Aspera Hiems Symfonia"], but I didn't know Arcturus then you know? I really got to know them from their second album ["La Masquerade Infernale"]. Also when I heard Agalloch I really liked their material, too. I like the stuff on The End now, they have some really good bands, I am quite impressed with their newer signings, now. Very 'thumbs up'.

Yeah for sure, I don't really think The End Records seem to be coming out with any bad or mediocre records as of late.

Yeah, but to tell you the truth I am not really familiar with the older albums on The End Records. I heard some of it, I mean speaking again of Agalloch, I really like their new stuff, but have not heard the old stuff. Scholomance is a band I think I quite liked, also.

Have you heard any of Australia's Virgin Black?

Ahh... yeah, Virgin Black, yeah. Yeah I really liked them. They reminded me of a little bit of stuff like Devil Doll, but not in that kind of way, you know? I like many of their bands; Virgin Black, Winds, Arcturus, the new Scholomance and also Green Carnation, they had a very, very good album.

Yeah it was, wasn't it? Even though it was 60 minutes long for one song.

Yeah I actually like short albums, also. That is why "Winds Blow Higher" is a short album, it sounds long but it is not.

I think "Winds Blow Higher" is a great album, and it has a good running time [laughs].

42 minutes, 42 seconds [laughs].

How did you come by Travis Smith to do the artwork for "Winds Blow Higher", it is quite uncanny how many big metal names he has worked for; Opeth, Iced Earth and King Diamond to name a few... I imagine you would be pretty happy with end result?

We were looking for someone that could make a really good image that could fit "Winds Blow Higher" and Raven Music sent him a copy and he loved the music. So he made a first cover and it didn't fit, and then he made a second cover and it fitted well. It fit very much the concept of the "Winds Blow Higher" album. And we said 'great' and we liked it and from then on it stuck.

Does Sleepless work for the fans or for yourselves?

We can't work for the fans for one reason; when we made that music, we didn't know someone would like it, we just enjoyed making it. It was an improvisation. I respect working for fans and I respect working for yourself. I think a band, in one period or another works for the fans because they want the fans to enjoy their music. If someone is releasing something they are doing it for the fans, you know? Otherwise they would keep in for themselves, on their shelves, for example. But because this is a project a not a live band that is performing right now; hopefully in the future but right now it is hard as each song has live 5 tracks of bass guitar and a lot of keyboards. Right now it is a studio project, I don't want to rush and do a second album without the first one getting adequate attention.

...And maybe not the right impact that you were looking for?

Right. I would rather the people know "Winds Blow Higher" really well and expect a second one, not to make a second one to sell the first album. That is important for me. I am doing it for me. If I was doing it for the fans more, I would have probably already released a second album.

Does it phase you how many records you sell or is it just a bonus for the way you can express yourselves by other people enjoying the musical collaboration?

I won't lie to you. I care because I do want people to listen to our music. I don't care about the money, because I do not make money from Sleepless. You probably know today that musicians don't make money from it music. I don't make any money from it; I just put more money into my projects that get money out from them. I have spent a lot of money, you know? For 200 and something demos sent by mail, and phone calls and pictures and mastering for $400 and everything. That is quite a lot, you know what I mean? I don't expect to make money from Sleepless, it is how many people know about Sleepless and this is important for me. Even though I said that the music is personal, I want people to listen to it. I like to know that people feel connected to the music, connected to the lyrics and that they have a feeling with the "Winds Blow Higher" album. If it fits people's views, great. If it doesn't fit, well I am not going to change anything, you know? However, it is not an easy album to listen to, though. It takes time to listen to and understand the vibe of "Winds Blow Higher". It fits different situations in life; you sleep with it, you take a walkman and listen to it and sometimes you have to be in the right mood, you know?

Yeah I hear what you are saying... by chance do you listen to Ulver much at all?

To whom?

Ulver.

What is Ulver?

You know Garm/Trickster G. from Arcturus...

Ahhh...Ulver!!!!! Oh sorry about the pronunciation.

[Laughs] Don't worry it is probably mine.

Maybe... Actually I really got into Ulver quite recently. I knew about them earlier because they were a black metal band.

I was just thinking that their latest album; "Perdition City", gives off the same sort of similar vibe to "Winds Blow Higher".

The trip-hop one, you mean?

Yeah.

Yeah that is a good one. I got this album just under a year ago or something, maybe a shorter time... I can't really remember. A lot reviews I have received recently say they can see some connection between Garm and me, and the music and whatever. We have had a lot of comparisons; King Crimson, Sting, Arcturus, Ulver, Pink Floyd, soundtracks of music. Even once we were compared to Rotting Christ, Tiamat I can understand, but Rotting Christ I do not see the comparison.

Yeah, well the point I was making is that there is a common easy-going/laid-back theme that exists between "Perdition City" and "Winds Blow Higher", you know? I mean a lot of stuff is nihilistic and destructive in the music scene.

We have some peaks in aggression in our music, though, but they are not high peaks but don't stand out or in your face too much. Like in 'Winds Blow Higher' and 'Change', the middle part which is quite aggressive.

Do you have a goal for Sleepless? Where do you want to see you Sleepless in five years time?

I would like to release a few more albums with Sleepless. I am frank with you, you know? I am not saying 'blah-blah' or something. Of course I would like to release a few more albums out to the audience. We don't get paid as musicians; we have our day jobs. Music is a hobby for us.

"Winds Blow Higher", seems to follow a concept of reality; human emotion, time, space and travel all seem to be strong elements that make up this album. I am right here?

Yeah, for sure. It is like dreams, visions, sounds that we hear, entities that we think about. Lyrically everything is very general, and everything has a lot of views and there is more than one side to a story. There is stuff about relations, the meaning of time. Future, Past and Present also. And musically I think the vibe fits very well with the music also.

Do you have a favourite track from "Winds Blow Higher"?

It is not that I have a favourite track...

...Maybe a favourite part or section?

I like the instrumental 'Rain', because it fits well with the song after which is called 'Moments'. Each track symbolises something, and then in the same manner each track symbolises everything.

It fits well together.

Yeah it is like a whole concept. I like how it starts and I like how it ends.

A lot of releases I listen to nowadays are seemingly trying to incorporate everything at once. It almost as though they are compilation albums with the lack of direction and focus they show. I don't think Sleepless does that. I think this is one of the best elements off the "Winds Blow Higher" album.

Yeah it is like a trademark, each song has the work of Sleepless. It doesn't matter if it is upbeat, slowbeat, in your face, aggressive, more ambient; you always feel that this is Sleepless. Always it is important to have the signature for us.

On "Winds Blow Higher" the bass seems to be mixed extraordinarily high into more or less all of the songs, providing a subtle backbone to each song and maybe giving them a launching platform, is this a continuation we will see for future Sleepless albums, or just a one off?

Generally "Winds Blow Higher" has a lot of tracks of bass: lead and rhythm bass and various playing techniques and fretless, fretted, distorted and fuzz bass. There are many different kinds, some of which I told you sound like an acoustic guitar or samples or whatever. The beginning of 'Strings' has [Maor makes a humming/clicking noise]; that is bass, I don't know if you knew that? Did you notice that it was bass?

No, I didn't notice that it was bass, no.

Also, some of the noises of 'Change' like the [Maor rolls his tongue] 'prring' sound. This is also bass. There are a lot of bass guitars, but they don't do regular stuff, so some people will not recognise that it is bass.

Was "Winds Blow Higher" an album based around bass?

It depends, the bass has a lot in it such as riffs and like that. Sometimes the bass is added on and sometimes it acts as the backbone. Like 'Solitude' it is the backbone of it. Whereas in songs like 'Do You Remember?' the bass has been added on. But then again on the instrumental track 'Rain' it is the backbone, there is heaps of fretless bass and a few fretted bass. But generally speaking the bass does play a big role in the structure of "Winds Blow Higher". The end of 'Lying In Wait' does have many tracks of bass, the jazzy part has four or five tracks of bass. I also played guitar on three tracks, and I am not a guitar player.

So the guitar you played was just self-taught?

I took a guitar and probably started playing the notes at the right time [laughs] for the tracks, 'Lying In Wait', 'Change' and 'Winds Blow Higher'. In 'Solitude' and 'Sands of Time', I bought in an electric guitar player, and on 'Rain' and 'Moments' we bought in a classical guitar player. On the track 'Strings', we have a saxophone player and finally on 'Solitude' there is a fluted saxophone player.

Now being that Sleepless is just you and David, do you think there is a possibility of becoming more than a two piece band?

I believe we will always be a two piece band because it is very hard to make this music already and to give it the right vibe. But we may probably have some guest musicians in the future, like in "Winds Blow Higher". We work the best this way.

Yeah I agree, a clash of four differing opinions wouldn't work at all well...

...Exactly. We already know what we want. It took five years to release "Winds Blow Higher", and we understand each other's temperaments and taking into account arguments over specifics and such...

It would probably hinder and detract more from the next album if you had more creative minds inside Sleepless. Speaking of a new album have you been working on any new lyrics/compositions for a new EP/album?

We have some stuff, I have some new lyrics and some new ideas for songs, but right now we are basically working on increasing awareness of "Winds Blow Higher"; we are pushing the album out more and when the time is right we will come back to the studio. It depends on the feedback we get. When I know a lot of people listen and like "Winds Blow Higher"; it will give more motivation to start work on something. Also, we have got writer's block after you release a lot of emotion, in which "Winds Blow Higher" did. It will take a little time. We have some stuff and ideas that we worked on before the album and we have some stuff that we worked on after the album.

Are you happy with the press and feedback that "Winds Blow Higher" has received back from fans and press?

Yeah very much, I am very happy. If Sleepless will grow then great because I will be interested to see if more people know about us I would like to see opinions; both good and bad on the album.

Any last words? I am indeed, very grateful to you for answering these questions for me, Maor. I await a new Sleepless album soon!

Ahhh... 'My Last Words', that is a nice song from Megadeth. [Maor starts singing the Megadeth song].

[Laughs] I am not a big Megadeth fan.

[Laughs] Just joking. I hope people will take the chance to listen "Winds Blow Higher", those already have listened to the album, I hope they keep listening to the album for years to come, because it is a timeless album.

And I am sure those people hope you bring out another album soon.

I would be interested in doing that, and hopefully that will happen. Thank you very much.