Finnish ...And Oceans has always been a slight different band in the black metal scene. Be it because of the lyrics, the song titles or the album covers which made the band always a little bit more remarkable than many other bands. Now they recently released their new album "The Regeneration Itinerary" (read review here) which is much different from its previous albums. More dark, more aggressive, more disturbing. Reason enough to ask for the whys and hows - and my questions were answered via Zoom by Timo (git.), Pyri (bass) and Mathias (voc.). Enjoy reading

Michael

Hey, how are you doing?

All: Fine, very good, thank you!!

How dark and annoying was the time when you wrote and recorded your new album? It is full of anger and very dark….

M: Yeah, it actually turned out a little bit more extreme in some aspects. When we were in the studio, for example the sounds, when we did the guitars, we wanted to have them a little bit more aggressive because of the riffs that we have on this album. That also sort of contributed to the order of it and the tempo is higher in some songs because of the drums.

P: I think that we just wanted to do something else than we did on the previous two comeback albums. So this might be the case why it is a bit more dark and aggressive.

T: It was semi-intentional to do something a bit different but of course maintaining the basic sound of the basic sound of …And Oceans, try something different for once.

What I personally think is that these sorts of techno-samples are very disturbing and give your music a more futuristic touch than before. You don't want to make it too easy for the listener, am I right with that? When I drove to school and listened for it the first time, I just thought "what the fuck is that?".

P: That's the perfect expression now we have succeeded because we wanted to do something completely different this time.

T: Especially that "what the fuck"! Maybe not intentionally making it not easy but the "what the fuck" was at least one thing that we were trying to do. A few of those songs I think are in the same vein as on the previous albums. At least my songs are a bit the same way, maybe they have some different riffs but especially Anttis' songs are different from the last album with those techno elements.

M: I remember when we started writing the album, we sort of talked about how we allow ourselves to be a little bit more experimental on this album and to see what happens. We didn't know where it was gonna go. Of course at that point we decided to not choose the basic keyboard sound and not to do the classic black metal riffs, giving us the freedom to experiment a little bit more on this album.

T: For me at least at some point it felt like are these songs really going to work? But when we heard the final results we were really happy with those and that we kept on going to make those different tracks.

…and in "The Form And The Formless" you have this kind of Lola Runs sample. Did you have the movie in mind when you composed that song?

T: (Laughs) This is something our keyboard player has done. Somebody says that it has something to do with Nintendo, haha.

Not only the music but also both, the album and the song titles are quite challenging. What the hell is the regeneration itinerary?

M: (Laughs) How to say? It's a guide book. The whole album is a journey. It's a road with good and bad experiences on the way. This album sort of serves as a guide book for life or for the human that you have become today; be a good or a bad person. The album sort of explains the journey and hopefully you can learn something on the way. In a way it's all about enlightenment, it's a little bit like a diary.

Most of the titles sound quite gloomy and devastating like "The Fire In Which We Burn", "The Ways Of Sulphur" or "Towards The Absence Of Light". What is the main topic on the album?

M: There are not all good experiences on the way like it is the case in life. There are some really dark moments in there. The album before – "As In Garden So In Tombs" – had a kind of positive vibe in the end of the lyrics. It is more like discovering the pathways to different kinds of road to an end but here there's some really dark stuff going on.

Did you use some personal experiences for the lyrics or was it more abstract stuff you're writing about?

M: I never really wanted to write something that is really personal in a way but it just happened. That was what came out of my pen this time. Last year was a really hard year for a lot of people and that's probably why it sort of turned out in this kind of gloomy way.

The titles have become more and more cryptic on the last albums. What do you think when you look back to older songs like "I Wish I Was Pregnant" or "Intelligence Is Sexy"?

M: I should ask Kenny some time because he actually has written them for these songs (laughs). What was the idea? He never really told anything about the lyrics either. I've read a lot of interviews he did back that day and he always has been really cryptic about the lyrics.

T: I think he took the inspiration from those bands that do industrial and ambient. I remember they had those really weird lyrics and track names. Maybe one inspiration is coming from there.

So you don't feel a little bit ashamed because these little bit more foolish song titles when the band was in its infancy but you're all fine with them?

P: Definitely. I got very interested in the band back in the day mainly because of the titles. All the other symphonic black metal bands were singing about these so-called "normal" subjects in that genre and then …And Oceans had songs like "I Wish I Was Pregnant". I was like "what is this" and their music is really symphonic black metal and that really got me interested in the whole thing. I am super proud to be a part of that nowadays because it's something else than the other bands are doing.

T: For me, back in the 90s when we had those first tours and gigs, maybe I was a bit, well not really ashamed but when I think now it was that era of …And Oceans that we are proud of now with what we did and we are not ashamed at all of that era.

Is intelligence still sexy in 2025 or is it quite old-fashioned these days when you look at the world today?

T: Haha, maybe.

P: It would need a lot more intelligence nowadays when you for example look at this kind of clown show.

Apropos intelligence – what do you think about AI in music / arts?

M: Oh well, that's a hard question. It's some kind of double edged sword. The whole AI thing is so much in its infancy still that we haven't learned how to use it properly. At some point you can start integrating it into music. Not writing 100% with AI and doing all the covers but I think at some point it can actually turn into an available tool to for example get new ideas. But I think it's still way too early to be the judge of what it's gonna be like.

The cover of "The Regeneration Itinerary" and its predecessor "As In Gardens, So In Tombs" look very beautiful but also a little bit artificial – did you have some help from a non-human friend?

M: Not really. Adrian just spends a lot of time doing these things. It's incredible the amount of work he puts into it. So there's no AI used on the albums.

What's the meaning behind this cover?

M: With all the covers Adrian has done for us, we send him lyrics first and the album title. Then he starts implementing those elements from the lyrics into it and sort of interpreting what's going on in a very artistic and avantgardish way. But still it's really cool because you can see the things from the lyrics, you can see in those details a lot of things we're singing about coming to life. On this album everything goes really hand in hand, the music, the lyrics and the cover, everything. It's all in the same concept and really describing.

In contrast to that, the cover of "A.M.G.O.D." and "Cypher" aren't the best and it is hard to get the albums, digitally they even aren't available on your Bandcamp site. Do you plan any re-releases and digital downloads for them?

T: They should be available as digital downloads now. I think Century Media put them online a few months ago. They have this price cutter series or something like that where you get them for about six Euros.

I wanted to see you this March in Oberhausen together with Ancient Rites and many more – unfortunately Heretic March was cancelled. What are the upcoming tour plans?

M: There are plans about it. We have a few album release shows in Finland and Finnish festivals, also PartySan in August and a lot of plans for the end of the year.

The final words belong to you!

M: Well, the classic answer (laughs). Keep your eyes open, there's a lot of new music coming and there are also a lot of shows coming up. Hope to see you out on the road somewhere this year!

P: The new album is coming out in May with some singles coming out so go check this out!

Some time ago I read an interview with Erik Danielsson of Watain, and he said something that stayed in my mind till this day. If anybody else would've said it, I would probably just smirk and move on, but when he says something like that - it feels like a commitment he'll most likely keep. It has been a few years since then, and now I had the chance to ask Erik a few questions of my own; and remembering what was said, I was gonna open with THAT quote, of course. Here's what it was.

Tomek

When asked what are your plans for the future you said "…our plan is to kill everything that has to be killed, bleed out everything that has to bleed, to set off the blaze which will continue to fuck the world until nothing remains beyond the black gaping hole…." Do you still feel the same way, does the plan still stand?

Yeah! I guess it's a way of saying that everything we've ever done with Watain has always been about maximizing and allowing the fire to spread instead of trying to contain it or trying to limit it in any way. We rather go the opposite way so in that regard absolutely the plan still stands and that's what we're here to do tonight.

Awesome, can't wait. I’ve been listening to Trident Wolf Eclipse a lot lately and I would like to congratulate you on another stirring release. It is shorter than the previous two and more to the point, but still strong and furious. After Lawless Darkness and Wild Hunt you managed to drive most people to the brim of insanity yet again. What was your frame of mind when composing Trident Wolf Eclipse, what was your main inspiration?

I think our frame of mind was quite hostile and predatory and very direct as we were kind of trying to do things almost the opposite way to what we did with Wild Hunt. Wild Hunt was the album where we really had no thoughts about what the outcome would be, it was very much an outpouring of everything we had in us at the time and that in turn led to …quite like… it led to very like wide or broad kind of album or expression while on Trident Wolf Eclipse I think we were pretty dead set from the  start to narrow things down to what felt as the one urgent thing at the time, or doing the crazy process - which was very much, once again, a very hostile and very predatory set of mind. I think we were curious about exploring the more savage side of Watain, the one that has to do perhaps more with animal instincts, and the one that has more direct almost kind of punishment, and that’s also why it came out the way it did. Like you said, it’s a shorter album, it has way more aggression, it has way more… it is based much more on direct…

…do you think that maybe everybody waited for something more in the vein of Lawless or Wild Hunt and this one is not like it at all…

You know for us it's always been important not to take under consideration what anyone expects or what anyone wants or requires, you know what I mean? Watain for us is of course writing music, but also everything else and all has to be based on personal expression - and nothing else. It cannot be that we adapt our creative process in order to fit in into someone's brain levels. For us that's never been… it's never been interesting for us to work that way. We always wanted to create something genuine; I think that how you pay the most respects to what you're doing yourself, but also to your fans and followers. If you start to adapt yourself and to kind of try to fit in you're doing everyone a really bad favor.

Was there anything that influenced you differently while composing; were there any non metal influences that surprised even yourself?

Musically, we were very much focused on, once again, the more primal, savage aspect of Watain. We try not to think so much about external influences, we try to get inspired by our own work, because that can lead to more natural progression. It's a very metal album, it has a lot of metal finishing, something that I'm personally very fond of.

It does sound aggressive and pissed off…

Not only we've been doing Watain for twenty years, but we also have been into metal for thirty, it's something that keeps on coming back - and how important that is to not be underlying that fact. I love metal finishing of Watain. For me Watain has always been acknowledging the roots and traditions of black metal. That's always been an important aspect.

What about making the album, was it mostly you or was it more of a band effort?

I was very much a group effort I'd say. There have always been three core members of Watain in the band, but I've been writing music on some albums, I've been writing more than the other guys but this time around it has been very mutual collaboration and approach. That was another thing we were really sure about from the start that we wanted it done - Trident Wolf Eclipse is very much an embodiment of Watain's essence, in order to achieve that you need everyone involved.

When composing and putting ideas into flesh - do you have a formula or maybe some kind of ritual that works for you every time or is it more of an instinct that you follow and let ideas flow and materialize?

The whole creating process, even after all these years, is still very abstract. I don't really have a good answer for that, I think it's just something that happens organically. When you look back at it you see how things come together a bit loosely at first, and then just escalate up into some kind of ecstatic final moment when the album actually comes together, but you are not really aware of that when it's going on. I think it's something that we try - to leave every window open for chaos to come and grab hold of us and allow us to as much disaster to happen as possible.

When recording vocals: how do you prepare for recording, do you have to get yourself in a proper state of mind or a mood, how long do you prepare vocal lines?

Not only with vocals but I think you have to be in another specific mood to record. The way you hammer on the guitar strings will also come out different when you're completely relaxed and careless, or if you are very much in there with your guitar and playing. It's all gonna come out differently if you do it… We always make sure that we have the time we need to get in the zone. Everything you record and everything that you allow to become a part of the final thing on the album is your legacy, that is what you leave behind and we always make sure that whatever we leave behind is something that comes from a very important and urgent place. Everything has to be played and performed with acuteness and urgency; I think that's the most important. We can't ever feel blasé about anything; it has to be very important all the time. I think that's how you make something important…

…and that's how you create albums that matter. With Watain album titles there is deeper meaning to them every time, what is the meaning of Trident Wolf Eclipse?

Trident Wolf Eclipse is very much summarization or summary of what Watain is in essence. That's really what we wanted with that title, that's what the album cover is about and at the same time it's quite an open-ended title. We always try to allow for various interpretations.

Can you tell me more about the cover of the album and the elements on it, the 3 elements representing Watain?

The album cover, once again, is likely the center, like any other form of artistic expression. Of course we have our own ways to approach it and we have our idea of what it is. It's also a very open ended cover that anyone can relate or look into. What it is very obviously is a path that leads to a very difficult kind of environment, onto the sacred symbol of the trident that we have in the center, the core symbol of the band. It's very much like the ancient Latin saying goes: 'per aspera ad astra' - which means to the stars through difficulty.  It's about acknowledging the dangers of inhospitable environment our paths lead through, and the fact that no matter what happens we know where we are going and we know that whatever is going to happen along the way, we know it's going to be worth it, because ours is a pilgrimage, because ours is a journey to a sacred source back home. That is very much what the album title says to me personally, but then again it's an album cover that I think everybody can relate to differently.

Bonus track on digipak called 'Antikrist Mirakel' has a massive text written entirely in Swedish which you are not singing but use kind of recitation or reading  maybe, what is this song about (Google translate was no help at all),  was there a special reason you decided to do it in that particular way?

I've wanted to write something in Swedish for a long time because I believe that there is something in (not only) Swedish language, but the entire northern soil that relates very heavily to black metal traditions, and the energies that have always been underlying our movement and our genre. I guess the lyric is my very open ended way to try and summon the energy through the Swedish language. It's very much like, if you know Swedish you'll realize that the lyric is kind of written in a way that is like talking in your sleep, it doesn't really make it, it's not really a coherent lyric like that, and it's more of a dream. It's something quite abstract, but there is few very important things in there as well that I wanted to have sang for a very long time.

Any particular reason why you decided not to sing it and go for the way you did?

Well, hard to say. Actually, an interesting thing about that song is that we recorded it already for one of the albums and we didn't have the lyrics to it, so we finally ended up not using it for the album, but the music part was really dear to us and hence I wrote the lyric part of the song. I write all the time when I'm home, that's what I do - and I've used heaviest piece that I wrote somehow, so that was spur of the moment and it became a very natural combination.

Opus Diaboli is one of the most satisfying DVD's I've seen; in one of the interviews I've read some time ago you said that if you had time you would like to add and explain more stuff in there and maybe you'll do that on the new DVD.  Well, will there be a new DVD in the near future, with new music, new stage set up and with continuation of narration from the first one?

Well, I'm totally open for it, it's just that I know from doing that first one that it's a massive project and it requires a lot of work, time, everything. But it's more that the thing that the way we operate now as a band doesn't really leave that much space for the projects like that. So we'll see. I think perhaps maybe by the end of the touring run for Trident Wolf Eclipse, we're gonna sit down and see if that's actually something we should look into doing because I still feel exactly that way. It was released in 2012 so naturally you develop and progress and you got new music and new stage set up and so on.

If you could chose (considering Watain stage set up, burning fires and the whole show), what kind of setting Watain feels better in: big stage, big lights and massive amount of people or more of theatrical setting with only few hundred devoted Watain heads?

It's hard to say really. What I like about this tour for example is that it allows for a different set up every night. You play in front of 1500 people one day and the next day you play for 300 in a different size place. It's kind of the way I like it because it's more of a challenge and every day it's something new and that's kind of keeps away the stagnation. It's a very important thing, it's really hard to say what I prefer, I think both experiences, both big and small, are very powerful in their own way.

20 years is a long stretch of time to be in any business, but music is probably the least forgiving. If you think all the way back to the beginning and then see Watain right now, what would be the thing that makes you most proud of?

I think the fact that we stayed together all that time, and still maintaining the same core members in the band. I think that's probably the biggest achievement as far as I'm concerned. Maintaining integrity, I think is something I take pride in, a lot of bands go this way or that way or over there and transform into something that you can't tell it is still them anymore. For me I think is has been important to learn that what we found all those years, 20 years back is still something we hold sacred and feel extremely humble and grateful for having stumble upon. So, I think that in itself it's the greatest achievement.

What do you consider best and worst that happened in those 20 years?

Well, the best parts are probably the fact that we just been able to maintain it in the way that we have, without compromises, without fucking around. The worst: going to band members' funerals, of course, and everyone else that has died along the way. That leaves scars on everyone.

What about the scariest?

Scariest. I think the whole experience in itself is quite scary [laughs]

How does it feel to act and create, get support and even win a Grammy Award in a country that appreciates even such a controversial band as Watain when you hear about censorship, show or even tour cancellations that happen in other countries?

I don't know. I just take all those things as they come. If you don't face a certain kind of opposition as a black metal band, I think you're doing something wrong, I don't think your heart is in there unless you're ready to face problems and opposition which we sure have. On the other hand, getting the support that we get, Grammy and all that weird shit aside, having such a devoted fan base and really devoted fan club that follows us wherever we go, that takes away everything else and that's where I keep my focus, on the people that really care deeply about what we do.

Do you sometimes reminisce those moments when, a 15-year-old met 16 and 17-year-olds and together wanted to start a blaze to the world that was not seen before?

Of course, especially right now when we have our 20-year anniversary, it's a good time to look back and think about those moments. The fact that we're still together makes it even easier to get in that line of thinking, because you see everyone is getting older but at the same time everyone still has the exact same glow in their eyes and that makes you think… absolutely it does.

What about the 15-16-17 year-olds that are reading this and also wanting to keep the flames going… is there anything you want to convey to them?

What I think our most important decisions and choices that we made back then was that if we were gonna do this - it's gonna be everything that we do, there's no room for anything else, there is no room for compromise, there is no room for being scared, there is no room for thinking twice about decisions that ultimately would be for greater good of the band, we just do it. Be prepared to sacrifice everything you have, be prepared to have your parents in tears out of what you do, be prepared for all of that, because without that kind of dedication you'll find it very difficult to achieve something of lasting value.

How would you describe the evolution of Watain in those 20 years, and what do you see ahead?

Well, I see a show in a few hours [laughs] and I see 7 or 8 more US dates on this tour. What I'm saying is just that we never think further ahead than two weeks at the time with this band, and that's another thing that keeps you going - because you never know what's around the corner.

I remember reading somewhere in some magazine that someone was asking about blood on the stage, and the whole experience of seeing Watain live and you answered that 'it probably will not be a pleasant experience…… for anyone'.  What can we expect to see tonight?

Expect quite traditional Watain show I would say, that goes quite well along the lines I was describing in the other answer. Every venue is different on this tour, every set up is different so you never know, but expect the whole shebang!!

Before we finish this interview - is there anything you want to say to the people that are about to witness Watain live for the very first time.

We always like when people participate rather than just watch. I've been on many concerts myself when I just been just a stand-by spectator, but if you really want to experience Watain in full, then you have to surrender your ordinary day life and step into the ring. Join us in the dance.

Legendary German death metal pioneers Atrocity recently released closer album of their "Okkult" trilogy (read review here) which became a very old school album that might be one of the death metal highlights in 2023. I skyped with band leader Alexander Krull to talk about that trilogy and the band's history. During the interview I also discovered some more dark facets of the band that I somehow forgot during all these years but are worth reading about. Do you want to know what Atrocity has to do with German Schlagermusic – go ahead and read the interview! Have fun reading and thank you Alexander for taking the time.

Michael

Hello Alexander, how are you?

There have been better times, we live in a crazy world. But I'm fine, if you look at the artistic side. There are 10 years of Occult to celebrate - in January the album will see the light of day and then we let the beast off the chain (laughs). We just had video shoots and there were the signed editions, the whole rat race then comes after, but in a positive sense. But other than that, what also gets to me personally is that the past few years have not been pretty, especially in terms of the live sector. You couldn't meet all the people in person, we played on five continents and in fifty different countries; Leaves' Eyes is my other band and with them we postponed one tour after the other, until now, at the end of the day we couldn't tour again. It's very frustrating and the point is that, of course, we also very much want to party with the fans in person and now the whole tragedy with the war is added to that. We have two crew members who live in Kiev, our live mixer and our backliner and that's a drama in itself and we also have friends there. We also have friends in Russia who, you can say, fear for their lives because they don't agree with the politics of the regime. These are times that we would not have wished for and could not have imagined. And with this whole issue of war, which puts people in fearful states and which causes many to be unable to go about their daily lives, we are now getting a little bit into the "occult" issue as well. It's a big part of the trilogy that has to do with the fact that in any system - dictatorship, democracy, kingdom, whatever - in all these political systems and also - above all - in religion and in religious associations, there's always one very big factor above everything: Fear. With fear you control any system, any belief system - if you don't follow this and that, then you go to hell or to prison - fear works everywhere and that was also a basic idea when we started with the trilogy, that we process the dark side of humanity there. No animal would do such cruel things to another animal as man does to man and also the way people are driven by politics and religion - in Iran you see that right now, people are oppressed and at the same time the rich and powerful of the world keep taking everything for themselves. These are actually the outlaws who can get away with anything and that is closely connected with spiritual violence and then the physical violence from the state side comes on top of that. Here in Europe the church had the scepter firmly in their hands, that they also tortured and enslaved people at the same time. Fortunately, they are no longer allowed to do that (laughs). The whole thing is interwoven in that often the dark human side comes out when man has the power or the money to do so. This opens Pandora's box, when man has the opportunity, people suddenly turn into monsters. You saw that in the Third Reich, for example, where a normal office boy became a mass murderer in a concentration camp. For us as a band that has done a lot of different things, we're always looking for a new approach, vision or challenge. When we did Atlantis I also did a huge research and found out that this flood legend was all over the planet. So not only in Greek mythology, but also in Africa, it was called "Atlantioy", in South America "Atzlan" and in the Bible it was the biblical flood legend. In Asia there is also something like that.  There I had many points of contact, from complete esotericism over ufologists up to Nazis, who searched for Atlantis - there was already a very large range. Especially in esoteric circles it was said that these are the origins of mankind or "my ancestors were Atlantids". That was a big theme that you don't expect at the beginning. This is not a Walt Disney story with some underwater men - no, there is much more behind it. So after the Cradles of Humankind it was clear to me that the dark history of mankind with all its facets would come next and that one album would not be enough for that. Then it was also clear that the musical direction must be brutal, evil and epic.

Did you find it difficult to write lyrics on the overriding theme across three albums? Although, with this theme, there's always something new to add....

I didn't want to dig up the common stuff; I wanted to filter out stuff that not everybody has kind of addressed. 'Bleeding For Blasphemy', for example, is about the Knights Templar, but not about the sunken treasure and everything that has already been associated with it in heavy metal, but that it was a brotherhood that first participated in the Crusades in the name of God and was more or less the blood hand of the church, and in the end they themselves were doomed by their initiation rituals. It was much attributed to them that they held satanic rituals, worshiped Baphomet or spat on the cross. The other facet was that when the high priest was burned, he still cursed the two main players, the French king (Phillip IV) and the pope (Clement V), and they actually then died in the same year. So there are aspects in there like the inexplicable, the mystical but also historical events and places. We also had the occult treasure hunt with the 24-carat gold CD, the bonus track they must first find and start this treasure hunt.

Is the treasure hunt still going on?

Yes, the first one is still not completed. I mean, it's also going through six countries. The problem is, we don't know ourselves yet. Before, we didn't want to start the second one and now we're already on the third one. On the other hand, it's kind of cool that it's lasted so long, but we'll see what's going on soon and then we'll see.

Musically "Okkult III" is quite dark and brute and the atmospheric parts are not so much in focus anymore. What would you say makes the difference to the two previous albums?

Occult III was supposed to be the grand finale. It's very retro, very brute, you put it well, and we changed a few things in the production. For me, it was important that the atmosphere and what makes the Occult trilogy come across like a steamroller. We really wanted to have a very powerful record and the requirement was that we write killer riffs. Tosso, my longtime collaborator, is no longer with us since 2022, but we knew that beforehand. One riff is still from him and we then wrote together with Micki. That was partly still in Corona times, where you were only allowed to be in the studio with one other person. We're all happy, including Tosso with what he heard, which of course makes me very happy and that was just the right continuation and a great transition. The premise that each “Okkult” album can also stand on its own was also clear from the beginning. We don't want to do something that sounds all the same and differs only in sound. It is interesting that there are more symphonic elements on the first "Okkult", that many find the choir arrangements on the second album more remarkable. There are a few choirs there, that's true (laughs)....

Haha, exactly, as with "human slaughterhouse", I find that really blatant!

That is the contrast. Of course you can ask why we put a choir in there, although it doesn't have to be so obvious. The band is called Atrocity and we do things like that (laughs).

You have already released two videos - 'Desecration Of God' and 'Born To Kill'. The two videos are already quasi small films. Can you tell a little bit more about it?

There will be three more videos from us. I've been active in video productions before and I also produce videos for other bands, I just did the new Eisregen video. For such a topic like Atrocity I also want to have a nice visual realization. I personally don't think much of lyric videos, maybe I'd rather not make a video at all (laughs). This cinematography is also a passion of mine, since Corona I've been more involved with it. My sister used to have a film company and I introduced her to the bands in the 90s. She did everything from Skyclad to Lacrimosa and also the first Wacken film. But now she lives in New Zealand and is completely out of it. I was involved in the editing back then, when it was all still done on celluloid and you have to have a bit of an eye for the stuff. The problem with some video producers is that they can't connect the images properly with the music. These are technically very skilled people, but they lack the access to it. After a few videos, where a lot of people asked me about it, it was clear that we will also do this with Atrocity - high-quality videos - and gradually I mutated to a video producer, because I get more and more requests, which is not bad.

I have the promo in front of me, where you have recorded all 10 tracks again as an instrumental version. Will this be added as a bonus CD or are they included with the regular CD?

The mediabook is our regular edition and with Okkult II it was already like that, that if we don't have any other bonus tracks except for the treasure hunt, it's a cool thing that you can discover so many details. We already did that with Leaves' Eyes and that was really cool. Or, if someone wants he can also sing karaoke on it ( laughs).

Haha, yeah, a Sing Star Atrocity edition for the Playstation would be cool!

Yeah, we need to have a contest sometime - Atrocity Karaoke, haha!

Are you going to release different editions with different covers like you did in the past?

There is definitely this mediabook version and then a box comes out that looks really cool and there are also different LP color versions. The mediabook is without any frippery, but there is a flag in the box. I haven't seen it myself yet, but the graphic designer told me it was the absolute bomb. The artwork is fantastic too, especially on the LP it flashed you and it's all very tastefully done too. With the box are also various cards, which we have also signed, there are also patches.

Let's go back a bit into your past - your breakthrough "Todessehnsucht" just turned 30 years old. Are there any plans to do an anniversary gig or something? What does it look like with a tour?

We have the request again and again, also for Hallucinations, which was released two years before. But I'm glad when we can bring the Occult trilogy live on stage and we will probably lack the time for anniversary gigs. Something like that can always be considered, maybe when we celebrate another band anniversary. We celebrated the 25th band anniversary with a big show in Wacken. But let's wait and see. 2024 is the 30th anniversary of Blut and there I already know what everyone wants (laughs). That's how it goes on and on. Every album that has an anniversary should immediately get an anniversary concert. But that's also nice, because it shows that people still have a great affinity for it. There was a new LP edition of Todessehnsucht, which was sold out immediately, of Hallucinations as well - I don't know how many re-releases there are of it - and there will always be new vinyls. The last rumor was that there will be a double album of Werk 80, but there are problems with the pressing plant.

During your career you have also released some albums that were received quite ambivalently, like "Blut", the EP "Calling The Rain", where your sister sang along, or also "Werk 80". Would you change anything in retrospect or maybe even record something like that again nowadays?

0.0 I would change something there! That is set in stone. That's music history, we don't even need to discuss it. An example of this - let's take the mini-album with my sister Jasmin. The Blood album was released and there she was with 'Calling The Rain' already with this acoustic song in a death metal band, if you want to categorize it that way. We were of course death metal pioneers from Germany, there was no techno-death metal before, we generated that with Hallucinations, with Todessehnsucht German lyrics, no one had that either and then we fell out with our label at the time Roadrunner, which was so the biggest label at the time, because of this creativity. We said that we will have a German title again and if that is changed again in the USA, then we are out.

Yeah, I remember that "Todessehnsucht" was called "Longing For Death".

Right. In retrospect, they thought it was pretty stupid themselves, but that was the way it was back then and I started working for Massacre Records at that time. There was interest from the usual labels, where we were also made very good offers, we were virtually the flagship from Germany, and it would also be strange to work for a record company, but to go somewhere else with my band. But I had made the condition that I absolutely get all artistic freedoms and that the band is also supported in it. They agreed to that and I had all the cards in my hand to do it that way: video shoot in Transylvania, continue German lyrics - it was not so much, but was important for me. With 'Calling The Rain' there was a huge feedback, people were totally flashed by it, they were surprised, but somehow they liked it. My sister has this deep, earthy voice that gets under your skin, like Dead Can Dance. Then we played a show with my sister together with Goethes Erben, which was sold out immediately, that was unbelievable. We also toured with her together with Rage and the orchestra. There's also a story about that, which I don't think I've ever really told. The label had given us all the artistic freedom, but of course left out how it runs financially: "you can do that, whether we finance it all is something else". Then the distribution manager was called, who said that it was all artistically very demanding, but we will not be able to sell more than 1500 units of it. Accordingly, the budget was small. I had hoped for more, of course, but that was the assessment. I then went to the studio and told them that I had to get in there for a handout and record something with my sister. We then made the following deal: they did their regular studio job during the day and then I went into the studio from evening to morning and got a sound assistant to help me. That is, I worked at the label during the day and then went to the studio in the evening to continue working there. In the morning I freshened up and went back to the label. After three days I had my first hearing loss, but we pulled it off. The funny end of the story was that the 1500 I think 30000 units became.

What kind of music do you listen to privately?

So in general I judge music as good or bad. The genre plays a role, of course, so I don't want to listen to cast shit. So we're talking mainly about metal and rock music, although I can sometimes get something out of other things. But of course I also listen to the harder stuff, often I like the classics. On the way to the last video shoot we had a relatively long drive and my son assisted me. I then presented him with a bit of metal music history and we really went through all the genres, from speed, thrash, death, grindcore. That's my lifestyle, sure. Which is nice - I recently produced the upcoming Discreation, where Marc Grewe is the new singer and I can do stuff that I like in my private life. Sometimes symphonic bands come to me and right now I'm producing a classic hard rock band, which is also really fun. I'm open to everything that is good music.

I read the other day about a metal musician and producer who re-recorded a popular hit song with a band....something you don't do, though?

I'm someone who likes to explore extremes, but that's not my thing. On the other hand, we have also played with Heino on TV. When he made his metal album, we were more or less his backing band for a few TV shows. I got a call from an old acquaintance who used to be the label manager of Theatre Of Tragedy and nowadays does completely different things, including Heino. He said that he didn't know any metal band from Germany that he would trust to do this and I was a bit skeptical at the beginning. Our Dutch drummer Joris then said: "what, we know Heino in Holland too, let's do it". Heino then really did "Blau Blüht Der Enzian" and "Wir Lagen Vor Madagaskar" with hard guitars like Rammstein, with whom he was on stage together in Wacken and then we were asked if we would accompany that and we did a few TV shows.

Well, then maybe you'll come to the ZDF-Fernsehgarten. There was a metal show the other day, haha!

Haha, I know. Our "neighbor" is Andrea Berg, she lives one place away and there is actually a funny story about it. We were with Heino at the "Great Festival of the Best" with Florian Silbereisen, Helene Fischer was of course also there, you could have a good chat with her and that was quite funny. Everyone was really excited because these long-haired metal guys were there and Heino, who is a cool guy by the way, found the whole thing very amusing. He then came to the dress rehearsal with Andrea Berg in his arms and introduced me to Andrea as her neighbor. We then talked and she had heard of us before, which I found very surprising. Her band leader at the time, Knuth, who is a percussionist, and I got along very well with him. Knuth then played percussion on two albums with Leaves' Eyes. In principle, if something is musically well done, for example with cool electro beats, I can listen to that. Because of the TV garden - metal has become socially acceptable since Wacken and Andy Brings, the former guitarist of Sodom, went there once and then they talked to him directly and he ended up playing in a later show. The other thing is, of course, that the metal scene is not socially acceptable for everyone. On the other hand, I know crew people who usually drive with metal bands who also work with well-paid pop stars. Names are not mentioned, but they tell exactly the same stories as we do on tour. So some things are quite similar. But our metal lifestyle and the music is unique in the world. When I go to South America or Asia, the people are on the same wavelength as here. The nice thing is that the metal family sticks together so well even in times of crisis. I also hope that it stays that way, because the polarization and radicalization of society is a great danger and there is a bridge to be built. Even if people don't agree politically, they find their way back together through music.